I quite often start these off-season depth chart articles with the offensive line because with so many players involved there’s a ton talk about. For 2023, it’s no exception.
Jarrett Patterson departs after what felt like a nine-year career with the Irish. He had been with Notre Dame so long that he was part of Harry Hiestand’s last recruiting class and then part of Hiestand’s return to the program.
Josh Lugg is gone too, and he had been on campus even longer than Patterson all the way back to 2017.
So we have a changing of the guard at…guard.
Projected 2023 Offensive Line
| LT | LG | C | RG | RT |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Alt, Jr. * | Kristofic, 5th Sr. | Correll, 5th Sr. * | Schrauth, r-Fr. | Fisher, r-So. * |
| Baker, r-Jr. | Coogan, r-So. | Craig, r-Fr. | Spindler, r-So. | Carmody, r-Jr. |
| Wagner, r-Fr. | Chan, r-Fr. | Otting, Fr. | Pendleton, Fr. | Johnson, r-So. |
| Jagusah, Fr. | Terek, Fr. | Absher, Fr. |
*Returning starters
Experience: B+
Depth: B-
Talent: A-
You Can Never Have Too Many Offensive Linemen?
Eighteen linemen is just a whole lot of beef. And it’s a whole lot of scholarships, too. We were anticipating 2 or 3 players moving on prior to the spring, although it seems like Notre Dame will be seeing more of an exodus after this spring semester is completed.
In his prior stint with the Irish, Hiestand almost always worked with 14 scholarship linemen and 1 walk-on who would be fighting his way up the depth chart. Sam Pendleton is the only freshman offensive lineman enrolled early so there will in fact be 14 in this unit during spring practice.
All 3 of Baker, Carmody, and Johnson presumably would be finishing up their degrees this semester and would be likely to transfer, especially with Alt and Fisher holding down starting spots for 1 to 2 more seasons. I had noticed both Baker and Carmody only played in 1 games apiece in 2022 and that’s pretty weird for guys in the two-deep with some playing experience in the past which seems to indicate they’d save a year and move on for 2023.
Although, I will say losing 3 tackles isn’t ideal and right now there isn’t much depth if they are gone. Will Baker be staying? If not, the oldest remaining tackle would be Aamil Wagner who weighed a svelte 267 pounds on last year’s roster. Even with 2 awesome tackles starting, building depth for the next generation is always important!
On Guard!
We will be entering year 3 of “when will Rocco Spindler be in the starting lineup” and “how long until Rocco Spindler starts seeing the field” talk. It’s been going on since he first stepped foot on campus. He was highly rated but I think also his name and a mean-mug really inflated expectations.
From reading the tea leaves and the not-so-subtle way Spindler is discussed throughout the Notre Dame beat media, it doesn’t seem like you’d want to hold your breath on that breakthrough yet.
Rising 5th-year senior Andrew Kristofic was discussed as someone who could grad transfer this off-season but he is expected to return and have the inside track to start at one of the open guard spots. When Patterson was briefly hurt in the Gator Bowl it was Kristofic who came on the field at left guard.
There’s been plenty of positive talk about Pat Coogan’s progress and he certainly seems on his way to out-performing his recruiting ranking (he was the no. 612 overall prospect in the Composite) in the next few seasons. He’d be a name that most fans aren’t too familiar with that will enter more of the spotlight in 2023.
The way the players (and some media) have talked about Billy Schrauth it’s difficult to envision him not grabbing one of the starting guard spots. He was recovering from foot surgery coming into his freshman season, was always on track to redshirt, but must have really turned some heads during practice while making his way back to full health.
Team Leaders
For this unit as a whole the big off-season discussion will be avoiding last year’s poor start. With the big news of Sam Hartman transferring in for his final year in college it’ll be imperative the Irish hit the ground running for the softer 4-game opening to 2023 (Navy, Tennessee State, NC State, Central Michigan) before Ohio State comes to town.
This should be the unit in the running as the best on the team. Sorting out and feeling good about the new players at guard while staying healthy during the off-season will be key to a fast start in the Hartman quarterback era.
I tend to agree with some others, that replacing Lugg’s experience is the difficult part, not replacing his talent.
Didn’t Lugg grade out well on PFF and stuff of that ilk? I bet he was quietly effective, at the least in the second half of the season. Doesn’t stand out, but I believe he offered a level of competence at RG. Something to be said for that, especially when the team was really, really good at LT, LG and RT.
Yes, but Cain Madden was PFF’s #2 IOL in the country before he transferred to ND. I would say he similarly offered a “level of competence.” But with the backs we have, I’m excited for the upside a guy like Schrauth offers in the running game.
(Don’t direct me back to this comment if he ends up blowing a pass protection on a blitz in a significant big moment this year, which is always the concern with a younger, inexperienced guy)
Ha, true, Madden is a stain on the validity of some of that analysis.
My main point was that I think Lugg was competent at worst in 2022, and probably quietly even kinda good, but not a standout due to a lack of high-end athleticism (and the fact it’s difficult to get too excited about guards that aren’t at Nelson or even Patterson-level All Americans).
That said, I am excited for Schrauth’s upside and will be happy to see him get in the lineup. If Schrauth can provide Lugg-level play in his first year (and improve in years to come), I think that’s a win for the program.
Yea, Lugg did grade out as a solid starter according to PFF. Technically, he got the 2nd best grade (but 2 more are real close) with Correll a step or two behind.
I wouldn’t count Madden’s grades as a strike against PFF. I think it’s a misunderstanding of what their grades mean. They are grading individual plays. So a high grade means he is excelling at doing what he is supposed to be doing during a play (which also means against the competition he is playing). The grades don’t equate to rankings (see their NFL draft rankings for example) because to rank players one then must take into account other features (like athleticism, competition, scheme, etc.)
Though Madden’s grade last year was better than Lugg’s grade last year (same for Lugg – grade better last year than this year). Though this year Lugg was better in pass blocking than run blocking where the opposite was the case last year. My guess is part of the OL grade really does depend on how they work together. And so the run blocking this year for a large part of the year was not very good overall.
Last year it should be noted that Madden’s pass blocking was significantly below his run blocking and both Lugg’s blocking performances (run and pass). So Madden may have gotten a decent bump last year from the whole line run blocking pretty well (and so he did well too).
I get that, but PFF had Madden as a “First Team All-American” before transferring to ND. If they aren’t ranking players with their grading, they probably shouldn’t be ranking players by All-American Team.
yea, ok if that’s true then you are right. I don’t remember that kind of ranking, but I don’t doubt you.
I guess it’s which analyst you believe as far as judging Lugg’s performance.
After Spindler’s first year, when Joe Alt stepped up after Fisher was injured, and the O-line was a mess, I remember reading about Spindler’s father commenting that Spindler should have been given a chance.
And I thought, that is what practice is for, if they don’t show it in practice, the coach isn’t going to play them. And then I thought, is Spindler one of those children that grew up entitled with helicopter parents? I don’t usually think linemen have that kind of mentality, however I suppose if you have a high star ranking coming out of H.S. and everything has been given to you, entitlement can develop.
To be honest, I expect the loser of the Kristofic-Spindler competition to transfer out. Kristofic will want to play somewhere, and probably can. Spindler will likely want to play for two. Based on press reports, it does sound like Schrauth has the best shot at one spot. Based on recruiting hype, and even his early freshman reports, I am surprised that Spindler hasn’t played more.
Lugg was probably quietly competent, but that was his best. Fisher coming in to his own helped Lugg a lot. He certainly wasn’t an OT.
Assuming your top 5 is right, we need two of Baker, Carmody, Johnson and Spindler to stay to have a semblance of experienced depth. We had almost obscenely good luck on our starting 5 OL last year. Probably balanced out the year before, but you can’t predict that again.
It’s kind of amusing every time Spindler is brought up on the 247 boards and Prister or O’Malley have to find new ways to say the coaches are telling them he’s not good while trying not to be mean. I think Eric is exactly right that his name and mean mug made people think he was going to be awesome.
Really? The coaches think he’s not really that good? Bummer that one of our top 100 (nearly top 50 I thought) recruit doesn’t pan out. But obviously it happens. One would think if that’s true and he got the message he’ll be on transfer watch sooner rather than later.
He just finished his true sophomore season and is very much in the competition for a starting spot with three years of eligibility remaining. That’s pretty standard for non-superfreak offensive linemen. Having Alt and Fisher at the same time is warping people’s expectations.
Spindler: Played all sophomore season on place kicking team
Hainsey: Started as a sophomore
Banks: Started last 6 games as a sophomore due to injuries
Eichenberg: Started as a junior
McGlinchey: Started as a junior (blocked placekicks as a sophomore)
Nelson: Started as a sophomore
N. Martin: Started as a sophomore
Stanley: Started as a sophomore
Watt: Started as a junior
So he’s exactly on the Mike McGlinchey track. A bit early to totally give up on the kid.
All of that is true, but so too is the point about writers saying a nicer version of, “Spindler isn’t good enough to get on the field and not really seen as an option to be as close as you might think or hope” when fans have brought up his name.
Also, fwiw, not many who cover the team are penciling Spindler into the lineup for his third year, which is where he’d start to deviate off the track of the typical “high OL recruit to NFL” pipeline.
It’s a fascinating point to see just how “very much in the competition” to get on the field that he is. Or possibly isn’t. Spindler did run with the second team as a rd-freshman this year in 2022, but unless he makes a big move or gets an opportunity that he hasn’t so far, he might well be left out by some combo of Kristofic/Schrauth/Carmody for the two starting guard spots in ’23.
I, personally, am not giving up on him (I don’t have any first hand knowledge to judge anything). I’m simply basing my comments on if coaches have already judged he’s not very good. I’m sure they wouldn’t have said the same about all those that you name. So IF that’s what the coaches think/have said, then what I’ve said follows.
Sooo… I see Justin Scott did not announce a commit today. I’m guessing we’re going to lose due to NIL reasons? I’m not privy to any paywall information.
I wouldn’t read much into yet. He changed his date to commit like a week ago because he just hasn’t had time to go through the process and check out other possibilities.
I read elsewhere it has to do with ND having a policy not allowing verbal commits to take official visits elsewhere, and this early in the process he wanted to take those to cover all his bases. And sure that sounds reasonable… buuuuut it sure feels like yet another high profile highly touted recruit that’s definitely coming to Notre Dame, no doubt aaaaand he’s gone. So.
Sure, but damned if you do, or damned if you don’t. I mean for the most part you probably want guys taking visits at a handful of places they are serious at and THEN choose ND. Otherwise, you’re in the position Keely is where later on in the process worrying about whether you really did your due diligence on other schools.
You can’t possibly expect to just get the kids that don’t see other schools.
I agree that it’s better than the alternative. Just feels like a bad sign. But who knows! The future is unwritten
I guess I think it’s just the normal process.
I agree it would be great if elite guys just visited only ND, loved ND, chose ND, and never considered any other places. But that’s probably not healthy (let alone realistic).
Agreed. I don’t think it’s a bad sign for Notre Dame that he didn’t follow through with his planned verbal commitment date. A January verbal for a 5-star doesn’t truly mean all that much anyways. Like you said, gotta let the kids take in all the information before they say they’re committed, at least then it might mean something.
It also doesn’t sound that NIL-based but more about realizing that Georgia (seemingly) is sending 2-3 DL to the NFL by way of the first round every year. That’s obviously a big draw and worth considering for someone in his shoes.
Plus, the original date was his birthday. So he seemed to think that it would just be a cool way to finish the process and then realized it was way too early and he should make sure he has all the information before making a solid decision. It wasn’t the case where he really thought I’m really going to go to ND but is now getting cold feet. It seems that ND still leads but of course that is susceptible to new information from other schools.
Good way to put it, Notre Dame leads but the process is not close to over.
Which is just as well. A verbal commitment isn’t the finish line for most kids anyways with this much time remaining in the cycle. Especially for a 5-star who is going to have a lot to think about.
Exactly.