If Notre Dame couldn’t get this one, against this team, with the momentum they had coming in, then it’s easy to self-flagellate and think the Irish are just never going to win one of these things.
Notre Dame lost the Fiesta Bowl to Oklahoma State 37-35, not scoring the entire second half until it was too late but also not changing or even tweaking a single thing it did offensively in that time period. The one underbelly of the Marcus Freeman transition was that Irish fans might have to get used to the idea of first-time head coach jitters and mistakes, and boy howdy did we see that today.
After the 28-7 lead in the second quarter, it was the largest blown lead for the Irish this century, and the largest since 1991 against Tennessee.
Spencer Sanders
I don’t know what to do with this. The last time Spencer Sanders took the field, he looked miserable, throwing four picks and generally looking like a guy with no idea what to do. Today, he set a Fiesta Bowl record for total offense (until Jack Coan, funnily enough, broke it on the Irish’s final drive) and made every perfect decision every time until he let Isaiah Foskey take the ball from him and give ND one last breath.
The Notre Dame defense had absolutely no response to the Cowboy tempo attack and got shredded by a team that scored 23 points against FCS Missouri State. Safe to say Mike Elston is not going to be the ND defensive coordinator on the strength of this effort.
Where was Buchner?
Clearly this one falls at the feet of the ND defense, which put out one of the most embarrassing performances in program history today. (Over 600 yards to a team that had no sustained offensive attack against basically anybody this year. Seriously? SERIOUSLY???) That said, ND didn’t score a single point on offense (until it was too late) and had absolutely no running game at all in the second half. Why didn’t Tyler Buchner come in even one time to change things up? If nothing else, it could’ve given Oklahoma State’s defense a different look. The Cowboys clearly had no problem adjusting to the ND air assault, even if it took a while.
It seems like at least a possession or two of him would’ve helped when the offense was hopelessly stagnant in the second half.
An inability to make a play
Our fearless leader said it best. This team just didn’t do anything it needed to do when it needed to do it.
Other than the Foskey forced fumble this was just about 2+ quarters where Notre Dame didn’t make a play on either side of the ball.
Shameful.
— 18 Stripes (@18stripes) January 1, 2022
I could reel off a long list, but just a few: This team missed sacking Sanders about a half-dozen times, Lorenzo Styles and Kevin Austin each had opportunities to make big catches and didn’t, and there were roughly 2,510 missed tackles. I’d tell you more, but I think I had an aneurysm at some point in the fourth quarter.
I need an 8-month break
Notre Dame doesn’t play again until Sept. 3, and I think I need about that long to wash this crap out of my mouth. This was supposed to be the one big thing to come out of this season – finally ending this stupid losing streak in the big bowls that no one actually cares about unless ND loses one. Candidly, the streak itself means little to me – if ND had been worse in 2012, 2018 or 2020 and won an NY6 game instead of playing for a title and losing, the number of people who actually care would be somewhere between zero and zero – but I am just so sick to freaking death of seeing that stupid graphic, and it would’ve been nice for it to go away.
Instead, not only did it not go away, but it stayed on in probably the only version of this game that would’ve sucked worse than a straight-up blowout.
So yes, I’m defeated. I think we all are. Hopefully things will be better in 2022.
Yeesh. That was like a parody of a Weis game.
I’ll just say that being friends with the players is not a qualification for being a head coach and leave it at that.
Yeah I don’t think Brian Kelly would have done much better.
we should have hired tony la russa confirmed!
My thought too when he was hired. I was really surprised when Freeman was named. Rees is actually more qualified, but not qualified.
we are a top brand in CFB. We didn’t act like it letting the players choose the coach.
Why is Rees more qualified than Freeman?
A) this game doesn’t mean squat. Not now or for Freeman’s future. Can we stop giving any credence to this notion that bowl games matter. Hell, ND hasn’t played in 5 weeks, what can you possibly gleam from this game and say Freeman was a bad hire.
B) Yes should he have pulled play calling from Elston earlier, sure. But he’s trying to be a good leader and show support for his coaches and who mind you went 29 minutes keeping OK State to 7 points. Maybe we should relax and trust that he will learn from this. It was first bleeping game after all. I know Holtz or Kelly or Saban never made a mistake in their first games.
C) We shot out of the gates and got up 28-7. Yes we didn’t adjust today, emphasis on TODAY. But we haven’t been ready to play like that in a “big” game and didn’t rely on turnovers or punt returns or kickoff returns since I’ve started watching seriously in 2000
How the absolute hell is Rees more qualified? He’s the Kevin Austin of coordinators, where the media hypes him up as the next big thing and says pro teams keep talking about his potential, and while he has flashes of that ability, his impact disappears for large parts of the games.
If Clarence Lewis or JD Bertrand see more than 25% of plays against Ohio State we’re going to get wrecked
Bertrand is by far our worst defender. Though thankfully there is a lot of talent that could replace him next year.
Lewis on the other hand – who are the real contenders to replace him next year? I suspect Bracy is not the answer either.
Next year is going to be Freeman’s toughest year. He’s going to have to continue the winning without an opportunity to do what he does best – bring in better talent. And every year after next year he will have a little more of the opportunity to do that.
Agreed. But at least Bertrand is in position every now and again to attempt a tackle. C. Lewis is just lost the whole damn time.
He got abused by Cincinnati but today was astonishingly worse and I don’t even know how that is possible given how poorly he played against cincy. The last 32 minutes of the game was a giant shit show.
It was Donte Vaughn-esque. The answer needs to be in the transfer portal. We need a cornerback starter and a safety starter coming out of the portal (between Liufau and others I’m quite hopeful that most of the rest of Bertrand’s career will be spent on the bench, even without a transfer portal replacement).
The Tariq Bracey Award for Oh God He’s So Much Worse As a Sophomore
Actually that was Donte Vaughn too
I’m not looking forward to the OSU game, given their qb, receivers, and Rb.
And it won’t be Freeman’s fault. We just don’t have the horses.
It does seem like it’s more a question of how much we lose by, rather than whether or not we lose.
I’ll be the optimist…
We lost by two to a team that was arguably 1 yard away from making the CFP, with no defensive coordinator and without our best defensive player.
Just to play devil’s advocate —
The whole marketing on Freeman and Rees was continuity. How do you feel about that selling point now? To my eyes, that game looked nothing like Kelly ever fielded except in 2016, which, uh.
On the other other hand, that 1st Q was like very little we’ve seen under BK either. There’s going to be a lot of variance the next year or 2 as some learning is done. I wouldn’t use this game as a referendum on anything.
I’m not using it as a referendum exactly, but it sure didn’t look like the much-ballyhooed continuity to me.
Freeman and Co have three huge games next year. We’ll know plenty soon enough. I just hope that the powers that be can make decisions with their brains instead of their hearts.
I hope they can too, and maybe give a 35-year old head coach a bit of room to grow and learn. Because basing anything off this and the Ohio State game seems…short sighted. I’ll get worried if we start losing to teams not in the top 10.
Let’s not forget that Charlie Weis won his first two ND games against top-25 teams on the road, and we all thought he was the Second Coming. You can’t judge a HC off of the first season, even. Even Lou Holtz had to get to year 3.
The players have to execute, but I don’t think the HC or OC or DC did any that all in the second half to help the team be successful. I saw zero adjustments
Brian Kelly just hired the guy who led Cincy to six points last night (after he got fired from ND), so it could have been worse.
Brian Kelly was never going to coach this game or continue being ND’s coach.
Well thank god for that, he’s the one who dug us into this hole.
Well, Cinci was playing Bama, after all. How badly would we have done vs them, especially with our statue at qb? And their receivers, rb and Heisman qb, with Will Anderson on the edge?
I’m glad Cinci took the shot, not us.
Looked a lot like North Carolina game this year to me, Notre Dame clinging to a small 4th quarter lead against a team with a mobile QB they couldn’t stop, backed up on their own 10, no momentum.
And then Kyren makes the stiff arm to end all stiff arms and 90 yards later ND goes up 10, and they hold on.
So yeah, I could see this happening under Kelly with no Kyren.
Kyren and Kyle quit on this team, so makes sense the rest of the roster quit on the season.
Have a drink, man. Go play some video games. Come on.
Who else in your mind quit in this game?
The refs, any time a PI call was in order. Not saying we lost that way, just commenting on the, uh, “let them play” attitude.
i got away with a metric fuckton of holding in my day and today OKST reminded me of myself lol
i guess it doesn’t really matter if it doesn’t get called
My liver.
This is going to get downvotes because of the harsh wording and because people never want to criticize players for making business decisions (which, fair enough!), but it is an opinion that borders on factual that we would have won that game if either of them plays, particularly Kyren.
We’ll never know and frankly it isn’t really relevant. In the game that was actually played, ND’s second half coaching was awful.
On this, I definitely agree.
No adjustments after half. That was horrendous. Hoping it’s a learning point and not a trend.
Sure, you go to war with the army you have etc. But the point I’m making is there’s a reasonable case to be made that the single person most responsible for us losing that game was Kyren Williams. It’s probably him or Brian Kelly, depending on how long of a time horizon you want to look out over.
It can simultaneously be that A. having Kyren (and Kyle) would have made the difference of the game and that B. they still made reasonable decisions for them and aren’t deserving of our anger.
Make better plays. Make coaching adjustments. Win the game.
To be clear, I’m not angry. I probably would have done the same thing! Get money; it doesn’t grow on trees.
But it’s also why we lost, is all I’m saying.
Sure, win the game without your best players on either side of the ball. Simple as.
Yes. Simple as.
That’s non-playoff bowl season. Almost every team has to deal with it. It’s better for us long term that they go have NFL success.
It’s a relatively new phenomenon that I hate.
Jalen Waddle played in the BCS championship vs OSU hobbled on one leg.
yeah, it was the championship, but he had arguably more to lose both in terms of injury risk and NFL loot than almost anyone. I admire that, and the culture Saban creates that fosters this.
I don’t think that’s reasonable. I think it’s completely unrealistic in the current environment and effectively absolves the coaching staff — who just got raises and promotions — of blame.
To be clear, there is a long list of people responsible for this L. Just in the “if one thing were done differently we would have won” way, it’s hard to deny what that thing is.
But also, again, he did the right thing for him and I’m not mad about it. It just is what it is.
There’s zero reason for Kyren or Kyle to play in this game. None.
Not the reason the lost either though. Would they have helped? Yep! But they didn’t play and we should’ve beaten that team. Lots of other issues
If there’s no reason to play in this game, why not shut it down after four games this season? That’s the way things are trending.
Harrumph!
Hey, I didn’t get a harrumph out of that guy!
Never said it wasn’t trending that way. I wouldn’t play for nothing if I were them. Thats the only reason the playoff will expand to 12. They hope players won’t opt out if it’s the “playoffs”.
Because there are something like 100 players on a football team, not just one.
I think it’s 85. But you can’t lose the difference makers and expect to win.
I mean it’s not going very far out on a limb to say with our best player and one other great player we’d be better and probably win what was a close game.
Yep. Very different than saying they “quit” in the manner of the post. Especially given Kyle’s injury.
yup saying they quit is just silly.
Pete Sampson said even if it was playoffs he thought Hamilton would play but it would be 25-30 snaps. His knee was jacked, so he was a lost cause.
With all due respect to Kyren, the defense gave up 37 points. Could Kyren have changed the gameplan, generated more rushes and first downs and possession time? Maybe. But maybe not. Not like the o-line had a lot of push. PLENTY of problems beyond not having Williams.
Well, given no run game without him, I don’t think that makes any sense for multiple reasons.
Obviously not for Hamilton. Kyren is another story. But would it have made a difference? They weren’t even calling run plays. At least call them to keep them honest.
Kyren can break tackles and might have made the run more of a threat. Maybe. Either way, I’m not blaming either. RBs have reasons to go get that cash when they can. It’s fine. Anybody who watched Kyren the last two years and wants to question his heart is simply reacting emotionally.
1) yes, definitely an angry, emotional reaction after the double IPAs were broken out.
2) that’s why he should go pro after this year. Not why he should quit the team with a game left. As a GD captain, no less.
Not your legs.
After Jaylon Smith, I’m not blaming anyone for sitting out a bowl game.
Once again, why bother playing the season at that point? Play enough to get your name talked up in the draft and then quit.
That’s what it’ll come to with the current system. It’s playoffs or opt out at this point.
The only way it will change is if the percentage of “busts” goes up in the NFL and they go in a direction looking for longer track record to make a more informed decision and favor larger body of work in college
Dude, you’re angry and nothing is going to make you not angry, so enjoy.
This comment is the essence of Notre Dame fandom.
Because “the rest of the season” represents playing to win a championship, which is our goal each year. You do understand why this game doesn’t qualify as that, right?
So clearly they both should have opted out after the Cincy loss. It’s just business.
Great way to support their new coach though, don’t you think?
Jaylen is one out of how many thousands who’ve played? Anybody can get hurt at any time. I agree with Mike Leach on this opting out crap.
I don’t care enough to be emotional about it. I just don’t respect it.
They weren’t calling them because the backs in the game couldn’t do anything. Kyren is a different story.
I do find it objectionable that both guys lobbied hard for Freeman, the quit on him and the team
Fitting that Brian Kelly’s parting gift to ND was zero depth at both receiver and defensive back.
Tbh, say what you want about Kelly but I don’t think he lost many games when up 28-7…
Zero, I believe.
No, he just never lead in major bowl games.
Too bad win loss records don’t give you a break for getting way ahead of the other guys. Until the end.
Oklahoma State probably unintentionally pulled the perfect “Homer Simpson as a boxer rope-a-dope” to make Notre Dame not want to pull away from the empty calories of “Sack” Coan, who is good enough to be good, but good is the enemy of great. The Cowboys took all the punches, then gassed the ND defense and took advantage of Rees’ play calling and Coan not being able to make plays. Then it turned too late to use Buchner and they just had to see what happened.
Thought the drive with 3:04 left in the game was the whole story. Dump off pass to Tyree for 4 yards. Low percentage miracle pass to Mayer, incomplete. A 14th target on the day (lol) to Lenzy, incomplete. Go for it on your own 15 with 2:38 and 3 timeouts left…Yikes
I wouldn’t recommend suggesting they punt with 3 timeouts left.
Sigh. Was hoping we’d left that over there, and here you go.
Nah bro. You’re here for it
Nope, I’m out. Already way more negative here than I thought it would be.
No you’re not. Lol you’re here commenting as always
Going for it on that 4th down was probably the right call.
Agreed. Our D was playing so poorly. Better chance to get get 4th and 7 then to punt and rely on the D to get a 3 and out.
Defense didn’t HAVE to get a 3 and out immediately. Just needed to force a punt with time and not letting them score. They gave a gimme 3 points and made it a 2 score game which was clearly not winnable
Maybe. But a gimme field goal going down 2 scores was a death sentence
Any kind of score is going to be the end of the game. But that’s beside the point.
No that is my point. Giving them a gimme 3 points ended the game
You are completely missing the point. Because of course giving them 3 points after a punt would have ended the game too.
Lol yea I know that bro. But they had a gimme 3 points is what I’m saying. Punt the ball and hope you can stop them. We had 3 timeouts
Who cares that they had a gimme 3 points? That’s not saying anything except that the end result didn’t work. Of course going for it on 4th didn’t work. But that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have done that.
Because we went down 2 scores. That’s the point. You think we were going to score twice to win it?
You are missing the whole question.
The question is should they have gone for it on 4th or punted it.
It makes no sense to say – well going for it on 4th didn’t work out so they should have punted. But that’s what you are saying.
It makes no difference whether the game was lost with 2 minutes to go or with 1 min to go you still lost. So you want to make sure that you do something to that gives you the best chance to win even if it might result in the outcome of the game being more obvious sooner.
No dude you’re missing my point. I THINK they should’ve punted with 3 timeouts left. Roll the dice with the defense getting a stop and making them punt. Giving them 3 points, which is what happened, made it a 2 score game. How were we scoring twice at that point? I think the best chance to win was punt with 3 timeouts.
Our second half offense was the death sentence. The defense got them 2 turnovers in the 4th, and they could hardly wait to give the ball away again each time.
Yep, hard for a defense to carry a completely impotent offense
Nah, it wasn’t with all timeouts and at your own 15. Gotta extend the game as long as possible. Failing there ended the game early.
That’s not the hill to die on with that offense’s second half performance.
Extending the game is not the point. Giving yourself the best shot at winning is the point.
Extending the game isn’t the point?? What are you even talking about man. There was ZERO chance we were scoring twice. None.
See below. But I’ll repeat here:
It makes no difference whether the game was lost with 2 minutes to go or with 1 min to go you still lost. So you want to make sure that you do something to that gives you the best chance to win even if it might result in the outcome of the game being more obvious sooner.
Ehh I don’t agree strategically. The only reason the game even was open was the defense literally got the ball back immediately before and then the offense got 4 yards in 3 plays and sputtered out.
You have all your timeouts, you have 2:30+ left. You’re on your own 15 with 6 yards to go and the offense is sucking. Gotta manage the game and punt. If you’re on the 40, it’s different. But it wasn’t
No way okie st has the same play calls at midfield that they did in the red zone. And there’s no reason they would get that stop based on what they had done that half.
It’s just betting can Ok St get 3 first downs or can the offense get 6 yards with 1 chance. Based on the way that second half went, I think punting from own 15 was the only choice. As the dust settles, I bet this pops up as a sign of Freeman’s inexperience for game management to not do so.
Right, I would have bet on the offense there. The offense had completed many plays for 6+ yards in this game (even if inconsistent in the 2nd half). The D had just give up a ton of yards/first downs with no reason to believe that would stop.
It’s a call we have no right/wrong answer for, but I think that’s just plain wrong for effective game management given field position, time on clock and all timeouts left. The ND defense literally just caused a turnover so I don’t see the logic in betting against them and betting on the offense that had been spinning wheels. Punt and OKST likely would have been conservative to kill clock and try to get it back.
Not saying it 100% would have worked, but you don’t get it on your own 15 and you have blown the game. And that’s what happened.
The caused turnover I see as a favor in going for on 4th. The TO was the only reason we stopped them and was *very* unlikely to be repeated.
And I don’t think OKST would have been conservative after a punt. Why would they when they were destroying our defense all over the field?
So judging by how our offense was playing, you were cool with letting them go up 2 scores? Because the offense was playing like absolute garbage, but you thought they would score and then stop them and score again?
No the two scenarios are these (which shows again that you’ve missed the point):
(1) Go for it on 4th and 7
(2) Punt it, stop them, and go score a TD.
If either one failed (with the OKST scoring) we lose.
Right, but my point is if #1 fails OKST is in automatic FG postion to make it a two score game.
If #2 fails, the result is that same where OKST still wins, but they have to earn it with at least 3 first downs and a lot of field to drive on.
I haven’t missed the point, I just don’t think you’re taking into account field position (own 15), game clock (2:38) and timeouts (3). Those are all huge factors that send the decision to being easy to punt the ball and stay alive, instead of trying to get a 4th down conversion. If ND had less time or timeouts, the decision slides to make going for it more worth the risk, but that wasn’t the case.
Missing the point was directed towards sleepy not you hooks.
I think #2 failure was like 80%-90% while 4th and 7 was a 50/50 proposition. Either way they would have earned it. It would just be harder for them to earn it with us going for it on 4th.
Stopping them any time – but esp. with so little time left was very unlikely.
Fair enough. I disagree heavily on those percentages, though, which is the difference of perspective.
I don’t think OKST had to “earn” anything taking over at the 15. They ran it 3 times and kicked an easy FG to salt the game away. If they had done the same from their own 35, they would be punting…
The “earning” it would be stopping us on 4th down. Of course after they stopped us, the FG is easier.
My point is: I didn’t think theyd convert a 4th and 7, and didn’t think we should go for it which essentially gave them 3 points. Punt the ball, hope your defense can hold them to a punt while utilizing your three time outs. I’m not saying I’m right, I’m just saying I think that’s the better play considering how the game was going. I understand we lose in your scenarios, but going down two scores guaranteed a loss. So no I didn’t “miss the point” again.
Can’t be a favor from your own 15 with the way THIS offense was playing that half. Bound to fail (which…it did)
And if OKST got it back, there would be 2:30 left and they would be trying to get first downs and grind out the W. The defense was very poor in the 2nd half, but they were better than the 2nd half offense
I would still have extended the game and trusted them more with 3 timeouts than the offense on a 4th down while that deep in own territory.
It’s basic game management, and Freeman failed.
It’s not basic game management and that seems to be contrary to your prior statement that there’s no “right” answer.
I do think there can be reasonable disagreement about the decision. But extending the game is not always the right answer – if it means a more certain loss.
I realize you were arguing it gave us a better chance to win. Fine. That’s a fair argument. But the conclusion that’s basic game managment doesn’t follow.
There’s no right or wrong answer, because it’s hindsight to know ND failed on 4th down. They could have converted and the decision would look great to go, despite all evidence of the offense sputtering in the second half.
It is just game management on your own 15, with 3 timeouts and 2:38 left and bad vibes on offense, the right play is to punt the ball and take your chances with the timeouts vs. falling in an automatic two-score hole by failing on 4th.
I’m thinking the bad vibes were even worse on defense so to speak.
Disagree, considering the defense immediately forced a fumble to keep the game alive (and then even stopped the run 3 times in the following sequence). The ND defense wasn’t at the top of their game, but the choice is pretty easy to give OKST the ball at their 30 or 50/50 (generous) to give it to them at the ND 15.
Again though the fumble is a reason to not trust the defense could repeat that. TO’s are not often repeated since they happen so infrequently. They have given up a boatload of points, first downs, and yards up to that TO. And no reason to believe those would stop without another TO – which would be incredibly unlikely.
I mean, they stopped them to force the FG, so I don’t agree. Before the fumble the defense had FG and recovered another fumble.
The offense before that play was INT, 3-and-out, fumble of their own.
Just based on evidence I don’t see how you can say trust 4th quarter offense to get 7 yards on 4th down from their own 15 vs. trust defense with 2:38 left and 3 timeouts from a punt to push OKST out of FG position.
Still with hooks on this one. Doesn’t matter obviously at this point. Bigger issue is giving up that lead the way they did. Not a good feeling to ponder over for the next 8 months.
I haven’t been as hard-core a fan the last couple years as I had been my whole life, and this is pretty much why. ND has a knack for losing in stupefying ways just when hope is rising and consistently put up inexplicably bad performances in major bowl games. I don’t know if they are cursed or what. Gonna go watch f#cking Utah possibly win, what they’re 3rd NY6 bowl in the time ND has won zilch? Ridiculous.
Whittingham is an incredible bowl game coach.
You know, I’m feeling pretty bored with this program after seeing the same story for over 30 years. I get what you’re saying. It’s like losing a part of you after all these years.
Yeah, I’m going to go watch what is becoming an interesting Rose Bowl and play some PS5 before people fire Freeman before the day is out. See you in the fall.
I don’t think anyone said or even suggested that Freeman should be fired. I do hope you’ll be back though. Things are certainly going to be interesting around here for the foreseeable future.
You compared one game to 2016 and suggested that in the course of the next year the admin might have to make a decision with their heads and not their hearts. Maybe I was alone going into this game with no expectations and making no judgements. If that’s how the next however long is going to go around here, then I’m better off just with the gameday slack.
I guess the game day slack is more level headed, I dunno.
Not usually!!
And definitely not today in the 2nd half!!
This is just giving me nightmares of thinking about Smith-Njigba against Clarence Lewis
Recruit better CBs. That’s the path. Get 5 Hamiltons and Mayers, not 1 per year.
Also recruit receivers that don’t all convert to defensive backs or transfer.
Not to mention an elite qb
On the other hand, neither defense made it to Pasadena.
Maybe he’ll opt out before the season. Business decision, get paid, etc.
Can’t do any worse than Utah, at least. I’ll take the under at 15/347/3, good Lord!
Stroud almost had as many TDs (6) as incompletions (9) as well. Gonna make for a long off-season to look ahead to next year’s first game haha
Following through now, should have before. Seems like “I’m not saying fire Freeman, I’m just asking the question, does he suck?” is going to be the theme for a while.
Pretty legitimate question at this point. Very inexperienced to start, then this deer in the headlights game. Not definitive but definitely a worry.
For the ND brand, hiring a coach and having to do OJT for a few years is quite possibly a backward step for the program. I felt this way when the announcement was made, not just because of this game.
I’ve never felt so confused after a game. Both sides of the ball became inept.
The defense confuses me the most. We give up 7 points in 29 minutes and then 30 in the next 31 minutes (and honestly could have been 44 without those fumbles). Just at a loss.
Because there were no coaching adjustments. Gundy adjusted and freeman didn’t.
Wonder how much of that was the weird division of playcalling with Elston. Feels like you’d want a plan for that, so it’s a bit of a concern, but a predictable issue.
That’s true and I don’t know about the play calling.
If Elston is named DC after that, then the Freeman criticism may be justified. I suspect that was so bad that he can’t possibly name him DC now, though.
I don’t think it was going to happen anyway, but yeah, it will be concerning.
But as the defensive wunderkind, I would have expected Freeman to jump in at some reasonable point.
*Elston. Until Freeman grabbed the play sheet back late in the game.
i am really not all that perturbed by the Irish loss today
every team has to take their lumps before they can dish them out and this was no different
as i said upthread this is going to be a very good teaching moment
this wasn’t 2012 or 2018 and it’s a long way to the top
my only complaint is that it is such a long wait until week 1 of next season
some of y’all treating freeman like the fuckin prophets did to the arbiter sound like yankees fans and i mean that in the worst kind of way
Well, this team dished out plenty of lumps in the regular season and the whole point of this coaching staff was to keep dishing out the same lumps in the same way, so I’m not sure why we’re back to square one of the lump taking phase.
PLEASE NOTE: I do not think any coaches should be fired. Any such discussion after one game is absurd. Maybe other people are saying that but I am not saying that.
oklahoma state with a top 3 defense by most metrics is just a little bit of a step up from the flavor of the week mediocre to bad ACC team or a quitty Stanford/USC
i think the bad november schedules are an underrated part of bowl performance
hard to sharpen your iron to play a top tier team in a bowl when you’re stuck with georgia tech
That I definitely agree with. One of many reasons to be looking for the exit sign of the ACC
To go where exactly? How do you propose that we should fill the November schedule?
Literally anyone else? If we want to beat up on terrible teams that get no respect, the MAC and the Mountain West are right there.
the syracuse will continue until morale improves
I laughed so hard at this, so thank you.
Agreed
That game exposed every weakness this team has. They can all be fixed with time.
Rees is a good, not great OC. He may become championship caliber, but he isn’t there yet. He didn’t make a single successful adjustment to what OSU did in the second half. There wasn’t much he could change for this game. They executed better than I thought they would in the first half. Yes, unlike our offense I know there are two halves. I am curious to see what the offense looks like next year.
Elston also had no answers. He however had to suffer with the injuries and misses at LB, S and CB. We were shredded in that second half. There was no pressure on Spencer at all, given the talent coming in at LB, I think we need a top LB coach and coordinator. Nick L. Is probably a great guy and may be a future star, but sometime the timing isn’t right, and it isn’t here. We owe it to Kollie, Sneed and the others to make them great. We can only have so many coaches learning on the job.
I think we also saw some hits from the missing coaches and assistants, like Kerry Cooks.
while we were lost in euphoria, everyone knew Freeman would have a lot to learn. I think he one positive in all this is that he got to see all the problems up close.
You’re right: they can’t do any more internal promotions. We’ve had enough of that.
This comment was so helpful for understanding this game.
This is a very good and fair analysis.
I actually think a short honeymoon period is a good thing. Weis having everyone fawn over him for a year plus, for example, hurt him in the long term.
Been awhile since I hardcore followed this team with residency and all but damn…another public humiliation.
Because you aren’t getting a Freeman 15 years down the road.
I don’t know if he’s going to be any good or not, but what I do know is that the only thing that can take us from “make the playoff and get blown out” to “win a playoff game” is going from having 1 or 2 Kyle Hamiltons and Mike Mayers to having 5 or so a year. Freeman might get us closer to that. Kelly never was going to.
Also, did you ever watch Kelly during a game? Go read the Athletic’s profile from the Ga Tech game. Kelly didn’t say much either. We just remember the purple face from years ago. As if any of us can judge what is going on from the TV.
i don’t disagree with anything you said…but I don’t think the argument is kelly vs freeman though.
We weren’t getting Fickell, Matt Campbell inspires no one.
Kelly left, Jack looked around and thought “okay, we’re good, but what’s going to take us the next step? We need better recruiting.” Campbell would be the same of what we had. Jack took the leap to try to get better. Maybe it fails. Who knows. But that’s why.
Saying all that is so, Jack is paid a lot to think much harder than that
That is not the argument and it never was. It’s a completely false equivalence.
When responding to “Freeman just stands there and doesn’t look like he’s doing anything,” it’s completely logical to present another example who does the same. It’s not a comparison of the two as coaches, it’s very specific in response to the “standing there” comment.
Dear lord y’all are acting towards Freeman like NDN did towards Kelly.
I think you’re reading an awful lot that isn’t being written.
Here’s my issue. I like Freeman as a man…seems like exactly who we would want to be the face of the program. I’m just saying he seemed passive, not responding to what was going on around him, like the stage was too big. Didn’t seem like he was ready to take command. When things started breaking down, it didn’t seem like he he was ready to hold the boys together. Yes, it’s his first game as a head coach, but he didn’t look like somebody ready to take that next step. Maybe he’ll have a statue in front of a gate in a couple of years, but based on what I saw today, I’m not holding my breath.
Dude, he took the defensive play sheet from Elston during the fourth quarter. He at least tried something. As for Tommy, zero excuse there. I’ve been back and forth on him all year, but now back to Rees not being an above replacement OC. Which, actually, funnily enough, makes him better than just about every OC Kelly had.
That was too late though.
Rees is a similar story. Way too inexperienced for the ND OC job in my opinion.
Remember when a lot of ND fans wanted Freeman fired or at least didn’t think he was as advertised as a DC in like October, haha. Only going to keep happening a bit, after results like this.
Grand scheme of things, this game didn’t really mean *that* much. Ideally and hopefully it will help Freeman for the future, and unless you’re like a senior on this football team, the result of the game doesn’t honestly matter too, too much.
I’d mostly agree with this. Plenty of room to grow and improve, especially with an actual DC.
I just don’t really want to see feelgood marketing stuff from ND for a while. There is plenty of work to be done. Get crackin.
I guess my other issue is that despite how good a recruiter Freeman is/will be, winning is an even better recruiter always.
Kelly’s 2013 class supports that idea, but his 2018-22 classes (sans Freeman) really don’t in terms of wins vs. recruiting classes. Notre Dame was always more player development > top 100-150 recruits under Kelly.
Freeman just got a top 100 safety today in Peyton Bowen. And another in 2024 (that is Kyle Hamilton’s cousin Peyton Woodward) is almost sure bet safety commit in the works. Brian Kelly didn’t recruit like that even with a shitload of wins.
When a safety is the best player on your team, you won’t be winning any championships. Not a bad thing, having a stud there (and we don’t know if any of his recruits are top drawer until they show it on the CFB field), but without a high powered offense in today’s game, you can’t be an elite team. Offense skill players are an absolute requirement.
Do they want to come play for Tommy Rees? I seriously doubt it.
Seems to work for Saban
Durr Freeman sucks is a hell of a take, but I guess we should have all expected it.
I’m thinking nobody is going to unless the recruiting roadblocks go away. The mouth of the funnel is way too small.
Also, 37-34 is a “humiliation”?
Man, why do we even play the games anymore. We should just close the program I guess.
Blowing a 21 point lead is always embarrassing.
better than never having the lead in the first place
if i am remembering correctly
today was the first time ND led in a BCS/NY6/CFP game since Darius Walker’s early TD put the Irish up 7-0 in the 2006 fiesta bowl and the first time they had led at halftime ever
Sure. It’s also not the same thing as being blown out. I’m just not following the desire to be as negative as possible out of many here.
I’m not trying to be as negative as possible. But I saw a number of things today that we’re pretty unexpected and alarming, not the least of which was blowing a 21 point lead and giving up 600+ yards.
On national tv in a NY6 bowl. Adds to our sad narrative.
no 37-34 isn’t a humiliation, but the boxscore doesn’t tell the whole story. 30 unanswered points and blowing a 28-7 lead on a national stage certainly is
Your name is certainly appropriate.
🙂
It’s a business decision
This is one question I’ve always had without any answers: what position in lacrosse did Coan play? Was he a goalie? If not, how?
based on the pictures on the googles he’s got a short stick so neither goalie nor defense
Maybe one of those attackmen who just park in front of the goalie and can shoot. There is no way the played middie.
hard to tell, the first couple of links don’t specify
Not that he was ever a great runner, but the foot injury probably didn’t help either. Coan is probably a very different athlete at age 16-17 then he is now after 5 years of college football.
Granted I’m saying this with my rear end planted firmly on my couch, but it looked like he had decent room to run on a couple of his throw aways to at least get 4-5 yards
Ha, true. Just saying that the athlete Coan is now isn’t necessarily the guy he was back then. Coan had a few good runs against UNC I think? He wasn’t like Drew Bledsoe or Peyton Manning, he could move, he just has very low pocket awareness and ability to slide away from contact. Coan was trying to use his arm at all times, I think he’s a pretty good athlete with subpar instincts/tendency to take off and run, more than anything if that makes sense.
And it probably hurts too that Coan followed in Ian Book’s wake, who was really, really good at generating plus plays with his feet.
Scout team? We were missing one player from the previous game.
meanwhile the hockey team just lost to fuckin niagra
ND is a baseball school confirmed imo
Did OSU take away the short to midrange passing game or did we just abandon it? Seemed like we transitioned to da bomb as our only pass play in the second half
I noticed the same thing Youngc. I thought Coan was doing everything right, taking what they gave us, dumping it off to the outlet back. We didn’t run bc our dump offs were basically our running game. I don’t know why we abandoned that.
Yeah, I haven’t rewatched, but I think in the second half they only were rushing 3 or 4 and dropping a lot in coverage and doubling Mayer. Coan’s options were basically to bomb shots at Lenzy over the top, or dump it off underneath.
Which is why it’s kinda easy to say now given first half passing success, but I think it’s fair to say Rees should have anticipated adjustments or at least seen their adjustments and moved to fix it and hit them with Buchner/Diggs or Tyree read options. Instead it feels like Rees just kept going right into it, which I guess might not be quite true, but plenty of time to see.
Either way, underwhelming from the “head coach of the offense” in the second half.
TOMMY UNLEASHED!!!!!1!!!111!1!!!!
Yesterday my friend’s dog got unleashed and promptly ran into a pond and smelled really bad for the rest of the day.
Begs the question why we didn’t try to run more if they were only rushing 3-4
Which begs the question, did you watch what happened when ND tried to run the ball?
When you can’t run the ball at all(few thought ND would be able to) and your QB isn’t mobile and your WR group is average at best, the other team is going to be able to make adjustments and you’re not.
ND scored more points than anyone else OK St played this season. OK St. is a good team. Their defense is excellent.
The write up on this game sucked and a bunch of the comments here are as bad.
I don’t think that’s fair or appropriate to the folks who run this site for us for free.
The people that run this site know how much I appreciate them.
Because the started abandoned the team?
I don’t agree with this view, but even if you do, isn’t it odd given that a selling point was maintaining the culture and how all the players would run through a wall for Freeman and Rees?
Can we all just take a breath and maybe remove ourselves from the keyboard for a second. I see all over the ND message boards a lot of sports psychologists and people claiming the moment looked too big for Freeman.
Name 1 big game over the last 25 years where ND jumped out all over their opponent and was up by three scores. I can’t think of a single one and in fact that was the most infuriating thing about all of Kelly’s teams was that they started slowly in almost all big games.
ND hasn’t played a game in 5 weeks. I refuse to get too worked up over a game that is played 5 weeks after the last regular season game as some kind of metric or tea leaf. CFB is the dumbest sport that they continue to allow this based on some bs “tradition”.
Elston isn’t the DC and it sounds like Freeman already knew that based on the rumors of ND going outside for a DC. The linebackers and the DB’s just aren’t good enough. This isn’t new information and something we’ve known all year. We’re a step slow in the back 2 levels. Yes, OSU is going to give us fits next September. We’ve all known we need to upgrade our talent level to compete with OSU, Bama, Clemson and that is specifically why ND promoted Freeman.
I didn’t love putting the game all on Coan’s shoulders, but I don’t think anyone would’ve guessed we’d be nearly shutout in the second half. I’m very fine with Braden Lenzy leaving next year. He just doesn’t have it.
In summary, Notre Dame and Marcus Freeman are just fine. We know we have to upgrade talent and Freeman is already showing he can do that better than we’ve had in a long long time. Yes, we’re going to have some bumps in the road along the way, but if we come firing like we did today in future big games, sign me up. Also, loved the fight to the very end. The players could have easily given up and let OK State walk into the endzone, but instead forced 2 fumbles. I think Freeman is fully capable of learning from games like today and ND is going to be just fine.
For a bunch of Catholics, I haven’t seen a lot of faith across the ND community postgame.
Honestly I think people are more worked up about people they imagine to be worked up.
You are going to see criticism of ND’s coaching staff this week and going forward. This is not new or unique to Freeman. If you do not want to see such criticism I would suggest not going online.
Some of this criticism is over the top, yes. Some of it is justified. Try to separate the two.
Can we keep criticizing Del? Because we literally have a handful of receivers and maybe two of them can catch the ball.
oh yes please
It was incredible that Del didn’t get fired two years ago. It was super incredible he didn’t get fired last year. If he is still employed by ND on by COB Monday, I will officially believe he has dirt on Jack Swarbrick or John Jenkins.
Maybe he’s been consulting with Mike Brey?
lol
Well anyways here’s a slick Twitter video hyping him; I’m sure it’ll be fine.
The Brian Kelly special!
The more I hear media personalities and former players dumping on him, the more I feel like Kelly is just a functional Ty Willingham, someone with lazy taste in assistants and doesn’t want to recruit, but is at least good enough to actually run a football team.
The thing I haven’t seen mentioned in all of this is the change in practice schedule. More hitting and one on ones, the greater physicality. Does that drain the players more during game time. Did we look terrible in the second half due to exhaustion?
I agree adjustments needed to be offensively, and defensively, however OKst had one huge advantage over us in experience, no Asst coach with the team for less than two years, and most coaches with the team for four or more years. Also, 29 seniors, 17 juniors. That is a lot of exp to fall back on, especially for 2nd half adjustments. Meanwhile our HC been with the program for a year and in his current role for 5 weeks. The offensive coach is probably calling his first game with the fetters off. The team was well prepared for the first half, just not the second.
I read on here when Freeman was selected that his inexperience would cost us some games. Chalk one up for inexperience.