Welcome back to another edition of Five Wide Fullbacks where this week we are talking all things Brian Kelly. Nearly 12 full years with the program and gone on a plane to Baton Rouge after a brief meeting with the players, what a wild ending it’s been to a long tenure for Kelly.
We’re going to explore a lot of feelings today. Pull up a chair and feel free to open up.
1) There doesn’t seem to be a ton of fan anger over Brian Kelly leaving Notre Dame, or at least not as much as you may expect. Should Irish fans be more upset?
No, there doesn’t seem to be much anger. The anger that is there I believe comes from this entire episode making Notre Dame look bad in the sense that Kelly would leave for a lateral-ish job. However, I don’t think the majority of college football fans view this as a lateral move, and as such that kind of boomerangs back into trying to make it more personal against Kelly.
Look, it’s been 12 years. I don’t think there’s anything more unifying among Notre Dame fans than the belief that Brian Kelly had reached his ceiling here, or was extremely close to the best he could do as the head coach of the Fighting Irish. Seeing that long-time coach move on isn’t necessarily a bad thing, especially when everyone felt like a retirement could come at any point in the coming year or two.
Also, I’m the guy who once called the Kelly era “The Gray Zone” where the average season is neither awful nor amazing (although it ticked much more toward the latter since 2016) and as much bitterness as some may feel today the truth is that a fresh start with a new coach is incredibly exciting.
A new cycle has begun and it’s always fun and invigorating.
2) It’s not so much that Kelly left it’s more how he ended up leaving, right? Don’t you think the manner in which someone leaves and the circumstances surrounding the exit like this are damaging?
Correct, Kelly should be rightfully lambasted for his decision but more so the timing. Notre Dame may not make the playoffs this year but the history will always be there to tell us Kelly skipped town with the possibility of winning a title. This will always go down as a shocking and frankly baffling decision to leave with that still on the table.
Add in the decision to poach any assistants and/or recruits in the process and you start to really fire up the critics at your old home. So far, this hasn’t looked too bad for Kelly but we’ll see if that changes.
At the same time, this is part of the business of big college football and we must remember Brian Kelly did the exact same thing to Cincinnati (although maybe not quite to this degree) and a healthy amount of fans wouldn’t have a problem signing Luke Fickell from Cincinnati right now when he has a chance at the playoffs. Ideally, Kelly could’ve waited until after the final CFB rankings came out next week but the looming deadline of Early Signing Day (which everyone thought would be so freaking great and look I told you it would cause problems!) accelerates these types of maneuvers for everyone involved.
The harsh reality is that these types of situations rarely go smoothly. We can look to USC where they’ve had weeks to hunt down Lincoln Riley from Oklahoma but that also entailed having Clay Helton as a head coach, terrible records, and a crappy roster. Is that really any better of a trade-off?
Our successful coach went somewhere else…it’s not really that humiliating for Notre Dame, particularly since many are intrigued by someone else maybe taking the Irish to a higher level soon.
3) What does the future between Brian Kelly and Notre Dame look like? Can he be welcomed back to campus? Does this change his legacy at Notre Dame?
I think the next chapter or two, possibly extending through the next couple of head coach’s, will play a big role in how Kelly’s legacy will be determined.
Right now, of course no one is going to want him back on campus or care for him to return. Eventually, time can heal all wounds, though. Notre Dame is notoriously stuffy and distant with its ex-coaches (particularly in the football world) but I think this resistance is slowly changing and is hard to ignore with social media being so ever-present in our culture.
Kelly’s 1st game at Notre Dame 4,106 days ago.
Let’s say the next couple head coach’s at Notre Dame win 75% of their games and it’s generally looked upon as a happy and successful period. With some time, I do believe people will forgive Brian Kelly and realize he played a big part in setting up that success. I’m not sure that will ever equal Kelly coming back to work as a brand ambassador or anything like that but he could be someone to return to campus once every couple years without incident.
With all the talk about him being a mercenary you cannot overlook the 12 years of service. It’d be like claiming a husband was always unfaithful when in reality he parented children through to college before moving on with life and wanting something different. For some, maybe jumping to LSU means Kelly can never come back but if the kids are successful (continuing this analogy) I don’t think it’s absurd he could come back and visit with generally good feelings for everyone.
4) Ultimately, why do you think Brian Kelly left for LSU?
I tend to think this was pretty straight forward. Kelly’s contract extension signed back in September 2020 went through the 2024 season. It’s my personal opinion he was feeling like it was the end of the line in terms of negotiating power for another extension and that he really felt like his time to achieve big things with Notre Dame was coming to an end.
Everyone probably agreed with that premise too, except most expected Kelly to retire off into the sunset or maybe get a job in the media with Fox or ESPN.
I doubt facilities or other issues played much of a part, at least not in the sense of Kelly making demands or else. I do believe Kelly likely felt like these demands would continue to ring hollow after the university gave him so much over more than a decade. Most fans either forgot and didn’t care enough about the quasi-announced Gug renovations that were supposed to be following the completion of the new indoor practice facility. I don’t think this was much of a make or break issue for Kelly and it seems silly to suggest it would be.
I’m not really interested in being like Fredo and telling people “I’m smart too” in the form of Notre Dame and its ability to win a National Championship versus LSU. It’s easier to do so at LSU and that’s okay. There will be a lot of uncomfortable soundbites coming from Kelly now that he’s at LSU that you wish he’d not say but it doesn’t alter the reality of the situation.
With some easy incentives, Kelly is going to make $10.5 million per year, and no matter what happens during his tenure, has a buyout where he’ll receive at least 90% of his total contract. After 12 years, he looked at making roughly $25 million for the next 3 years with Notre Dame to knowing a sum of around $90 million is coming even if he’s fired by year 3 with the Tigers. That’s simple math.
5) Do you believe Brian Kelly will find success at LSU? What do you think he’ll do well or struggle with in his new home?
My initial snap reaction was no this wouldn’t work out. Some people criticize the culture fit while some think it won’t matter. I tend to lean towards the former line of thinking.
Brian Kelly was never a strong and willing recruiter at Notre Dame. And, he’s been “shopping down a different aisle” for longer than most head coaches have careers. He’s largely comfortable with–and has employed assistants comfortable with–succeeding in recruiting a lot of self-selecting families with ties to Notre Dame or people in their orbit strongly pushing what the school had to offer, especially outside of football.
Brian Kelly going into homes in Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, and even going through the Junior College ranks with much more of a football-only sales pitch? Yeah, I have my doubts.
Then again, if I’m Brian Kelly I look at the peak successes of Les Miles and Ed Orgeron and would think to myself, “I’m a better coach in all aspects than them and will bring more consistent success.”
It seems to me that LSU craves competent CEO-type leadership above all else and isn’t that kind of Brian Kelly’s biggest strength?
It goes without saying that building a good staff and promising coordinators around Kelly will be key. Especially in recruiting. If this area is shaky he might be able to impress people for a while but the magic will soon run out.
Yet, you have to wonder how patient will LSU and its fans be? Right now, Notre Dame’s roster is better. Right now, Notre Dame’s 2022 recruiting class is better while LSU’s is small and well below their standards. Over the next 2 regular seasons, LSU faces Florida State, Auburn, Florida, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, and Alabama each twice, to say nothing of the Arkansas or Kentucky’s of the world. That gauntlet won’t be easy. There are 7 teams in the SP+ top 25 rankings at the moment (including 4 within LSU’s division) and this doesn’t even include currently down Florida and Auburn teams.
Will they be restless if Kelly is 17-9 at best through 2 seasons?
You’d think the contract alone (plus Kelly may not exactly endear himself to the Bayou culture) will put his feet to the fire immediately. Welcome to the SEC, indeed.
New thread! Huzzah.
I have no new news or opinions. We still need a coach by mid-day Sunday.
EDIT: Actually I do have an opinion – the timing of his leaving is fine, maybe even better than if he left Sunday after finding out we didn’t make the playoff. This buys us more time to figure out what we’re doing ahead of signing day. And, yeah, if we name Fickell coach Sunday when Cincy just made the playoff I’m not going to feel too bad about it. This is the life they’ve chosen.
Thanks Eric! You’re the bomb!
Is it me or did Kelly sort of do us a favor, here? Don’t get me wrong, I’m a Kelly fan and always have been and it sucks to seem him split. But, I mean . . . . weren’t we all kinda hoping that Freeman was going to be Kelly’s successor at some point anyway? Wasn’t the sentiment always that Kelly was just a cut under that elite HC status and we were hoping whoever replaced him could get to that next level? And, isn’t it fairly clear at this point that if we’ were ever going to have an elite HC at ND, it was going to be because we hired someone who GREW into that? Does anybody seriously think we’re going to hire Saban or Swinney or Urbs etc?
Well, with the way that Kelly left, he put a ton of pressure on ND to make Freeman the HC. He’s essentially rigged it so Swarbrick would need to go out of his way to do something stupid and not to make Freeman the HC (I hope I avoided the jinx with my careful words, there). Kelly also indirectly put a ton of pressure on ND to pay people like Balis, Rees, and Freeman more, and maybe even acquiesce to some demands on facilities etc. I dunno, maybe I’m crazy, but if we were going to lose Kelly, this seems like almost the best way to lose him. Had he “done the right thing” (whatever that means) and decided to wait until after the season was over, someone else could be announcing Freeman as their head coach this week, Rees and Balis could be at LSU, and we’d be praying for Fickle and Campbell to come over and start from scratch.
Kelly set us with Freeman! What a guy!
But seriously, I do understand where you’re coming from. It could be so, so much worse. This could work out really well for us.
LOL with friends like these…..
With his Freudian slip, you could argue he planned this all year!
It’s possible he did. I’m coming around to the idea that Freeman is the right call here, and I’m getting excited about the possibilities. But this is risky.
I’ve been wondering since yesterday if BK’s comments about Freeman being the next HC were him feeling like ND was going to push him out the door for Freeman in a year or two.
Yup. For some odd reason, though, I just want to see Kelly in an altruistic light. As in, he knew he was at the end of his career and he saw the opportunity to take a shot at a title, get paid big money, leave the program in the right hands, and get his coaches a salary bump all in one fell swoop. I know that’s likely not how it happened, but in some weird way it makes more sense than “well they offered me $100MM and hey it’s LSU.” That just doesn’t seem to meld with what we know about Kelly. I mean, sure he bounced on Cincy, so you could say this is his MO, but that was for a much bigger job (wasn’t he on record saying ND was his dream job?). It may be easier to win a natty at LSU, but prestige-wise this is a lateral move on its best day, I think.
They’re all the “dream job” at the press conference.
Personally, I think BK probably isn’t a great person. But I feel that way about anyone competitive and driven enough to be successful at this level. I accept it for what it is. I can think of 0 top coaches that I genuinely think are good, nice people, since Lou Holtz.
I harbor no ill will toward him and am VERY appreciative of what he has done for ND (just like I’m appreciative of what Weis did. Ty not so much). I feel his actions were completely reasonable, but really just don’t care about him either way at this point. He gone.
To me BK is the same as a CEO of a company I have a lot of money invested in. I am not happy he left, for the sake of the company, but at this point I only really care that we nail the next CEO.
People should probably try to step back, remove their emotions for a minute, and just looked at this as a man who spent 12 years making a billion dollar corporation more successful than it had been in decades, then took an opportunity he thought was better.
Man, I honestly could not agree more and could not have described it better. Hit the nail on the head. I’m just goofy and WANT to think his motives had some altruism to them (especially since these coaches do have 18 year old minds that they are responsible for). But at the end of the day, I know that’s not true. Nice guy coaches don’t finish last in the world of College Football, bad coaches do. Nice guy coaches aren’t even allowed on the racetrack.
Didn’t give his two weeks notice, so we’re not paying out his accrued PTO.
That’ll show him!
Yeah, pretty much this.
The whole “making assistants park cars in the snow for his holiday party” at GVSU story that I first heard this week says quite a it, if its true.
LaFleur, who the story is about, came back to work for him at Notre Dame, so I have some reasonable doubt about that story.
That may speak more to how bad ALL college coaches are and less to the truth of the story
I was literally writing this same comment as you made. That story doesn’t quite add up. LaFleur went to the NFL, was seen as a rising star in the coaching ranks and still chose to come back to college and Kelly.
As usual with Kelly, it’s probably a weird thing to do to underlings and lacking some empathy and all…But I don’t think it’s like the assistant’s gfs/wives were out in the cold all night in cocktail dresses or anything and they got roped into working instead of enjoying a party. Seems like more to the story than how it was written and remembered.
Hey coach! Thanks for the invite! Honored to be here!
Who are you again? Shut up and park my car, spanky.
“Hey…who let you guys out of the film room?! Get back at once!”
Apparently he doesn’t have those guys yet at LSU
And yet, LaFleur came back and coached for him again. Not that I don’t believe the story. But these guys all only care about winning at the highest level. That is their career and their drive. And this is how that career unfolds.
gambit beat me to it.
To reiterate my point below, I think the fact that he came back to work for Kelly makes your point above. He knew that all the coaches at that level are ego maniacs that pull this nonsense, so what’s the point of holding it against Kelly? Might as well take the job
Fully agree.
Or it wasn’t really that big of a deal to LaFleur and got written in 2019 years later as an example of the type of coach/person he didn’t want to be and then the story grew into a life of its own. There are lots of other examples that Kelly treated his staff and assistants very well at ND and was considered a pretty good boss to have under the circumstances of the job.
Makes sense. Probably more so than what I said
Jamie U and Christian at ISD usually have really good things to say about how BK is with the media compared to other coaches.
Hard to call it a lateral, what with the money and the fact LSU has won three NCs this century and it’s most recent was two years ago. Ours was over 30 years ago.
And Kelly won’t have to confine himself to any particular aisle, the store will be wide open to him, although the competition for talent will be brutal. I appreciate what he did for ND and wish him well.
And now the fans and players have the coach they want. I hope it works out. We’ll all know soon enough.
I hear you. But to me, that’s just evidence that winning at LSU is a bit easier. Doesn’t mean it’s not a lateral move from a prestige standpoint. It’s hard for me to see LSU as a promotion. That’s all I’m saying. Well, except for the money – you got me there.
I also saw a take, I forget where, that Kelly was told that ND wasn’t going to extend him any further and wasn’t planning to give him any raises past his 2024 end date unless he won a natty. Not sure if 100% true, but if so, that would kind of lean into this theory where he felt like he was the 60-year old almost lame duck at Notre Dame for a few more years.
The Shamrock talked a bit about that too where Kelly maybe felt like he “wanted to be wanted”. And seeing all these coaches like Mel freakin Tucker get $95 million he felt like he should be approaching that range too.
That wasn’t going to come from Notre Dame for him in 2021, so he found a path where he could get it. And also maybe cap his career with a title. One can see some logic from that perspective.
There’s logic. I just don’t like it. But again, not that sad. This could be good for both parties.
Shaun Davis (ESPN Chicago/Irish Breakdown/Lucky Lefty Podcast) said something like this on the 4+hour Monday night IB podcast. If you listen to Shaun on IB he’s prone to stating theories enthusiastically, I don’t think he was saying it was well-sourced reasoning. Since then it’s kind of become part of the narrative making elsewhere.
For me it’s one of those things that probably touches around the truth. BK had $24ish million guaranteed left and he didn’t feel like he could ask for $100 million plus from ND without a title. So he didn’t. Someone else offered him $100+ million and he just left without discussing it with anyone at ND until the decision was irrevocable.
I watched a little of those guys (that’s Driskel too, right?) and uh, they were, uh…ecstatic, which was interesting. Couldn’t watch all 4 hours though.
Yep, that’s the place. Their overriding point, besides not personally getting along with Kelly, is that it gives ND a chance to bring in someone with strengths where Kelly was weak and they’re all in on Marcus Freeman. So a bit of an extreme reaction, but they arrived at the same place as a lot of others.
Yeah I don’t think the conclusion is wrong per se, but having never listened to them before (I remember when Driskel was with Mike Frank at one point, that’s where I knew him from) I wasn’t quite ready for it all.
TOS (OFD) has a couple writers who cover them like it’s their beat on twitter waiting for Driskel to say something stupid. It’s all pretty funny insofar as you find meta-ND-pettiness funny.
That reminds me not to go back to OFD, if I were to ever think about it.
Some of them are okay twitter follows, but there’s no real reason to go back to TOS. Their podcast is below average for ND podcasts too, not to drag them too much.
They’re not too bad, but their articles are about a page long. And the ads are so annoying. Never listened to their podcast. Top many good ones out there to keep up with already.
That site has been a tough hang this week. Much more profanity.
Not a fan of Driskel. I find him to be a blowhard and his supposed knowledge of the game overblown.
Is it, though? He seems awfully reactionary in his actions, but I’d posit a competent CEO would be a bit more proactive.
Oh yes, I think so. He’s the CEO-type all the way, always has been.
Pushing more on the competency aspect, I guess.
Excellent turn around time with the header image.
Help me with this point. If he’s largely getting the things he asked for then his demands neither hallow nor hollow, are they? I’m in favor of more movement toward the Gug renovation, but construction taking time is something I’m pretty familiar with, so it hasn’t seemed ridiculous to me that the next major project hasn’t broken ground yet.
Hollow, see what happens when I try to write on a deadline!
I think there was an interview with Jack within the last ~18 months where he said the next round of Gug updates and expansion would be a few years down the road.
Sampson said on The Shamrock that Kelly went into his pocket to provide funding for the mental performance staff. And I think he was a donor for other projects too. I could see how having to battle like that would get old.
I agree with your article comments that facilities probably weren’t a huge factor in the decision but I wouldn’t dismiss it as being a total non-factor either. It’s another piece of the big puzzle that got him to the point where he was open for a different place to be.
Okay, that was the piece of context I was missing. Jack this week has referred to continuing capital improvements, but I didn’t know we were possibly still years from even seeing architect drawings.
I remember it being weird. When the indoor practice field was announced it was reported to be coming with the Gug renovations. Then, it was reported those renovations included an extension in the south and southwest sections of the Gug with a bridge crossing over Courtney Lane to the practice fields.
Some time went by and eventually it came out those Gug plans would be coming at a later date. I’m not sure the school has agreed to all the changes?
Matt Fortuna said that the Gug is very weak compared to other top programs, and even some middling programs like northwestern and Wisconsin and ND gets shit about it in recruiting. He also said that ND is way behind in things like recovery, training table, sports psychology, analysts, and recruiting access (private plane). Put all those together with Kelly having to donate to get the indoor facility… I could see it being one more straw on the camel’s back.
NW did just build a brand new $260 million complex so that’s tough to beat! Recovery, sports psychology, and private planes I think have been addressed a lot in recent years by ND, though.
The plan was to move football and both soccer teams into the new Gug addition. This is from the SBT when the indoor field was announced:
Needed improvements for sure. I do think it’s odd we’re going on ~4 years since this was “announced” and nothing has happened.
But, I think it’s fairly small in the grand scheme especially as it related to Swarbrick’s perspective in trying to keep Kelly.
Maybe the school thinks, “Hey Brian it’s been twelve years. We’ve given you plenty. Ok, you’ve beaten all the have nots. How about beating one or two of the haves.”….I don’t know how far behind ND is but, I think we’d all be stunned by what they do have for these kids. I doubt there are more than a handful with all that much better. If there are, many are not getting better results.
I think I missed that LSU has a hand signal. Did they just steal Texas Tech’s or was it the other way around?
1) Nah. It’s fine. Kelly reached the limit of what HE was willing to do, especially in terms of recruiting. More on that in a minute.
2) It’s…fine. I think I’m more upset that I just didn’t expect it. It’s better because we have options.
3) Who cares. See #4
4) …who cares? I think HE thought that ND was at its ceiling. Mostly because he personally wasn’t going to ever turn into what ND needs at this point, which is that elite recruiter. He’d upgraded everything he could at ND but himself. Thus, in his mind, ND had reached it’s ceiling for him. I guess for that we thank him, because 12 years ago it wouldn’t be feasible to hire the 35 yo DC and keep the 29 yo OC and so on.
5) Nope. I think the very reason he couldn’t take ND any further is why he’ll ultimately fail at LSU. He’s not an elite recruiter. See, he THINKS it’ll be easier to acquire elite talent, and he’s not wrong, per se. But he’s also in amongst much more cutthroat competition. He’s not beating out Saban, he’s not outworking Kirby, and I don’t even think he can compete with Lane or Jimbo. Some kids will go to LSU because it’s LSU. But Kelly isn’t going to be the closer that brings in a kid deciding between LSU, Bama, and UGA.
“He’d upgraded everything he could at ND but himself”……Ha, great line, he did improve but I think he reached his limit…….”he THINKS it’ll be easier to acquire elite talent, and he’s not wrong,” Will recruiting be easier or different ? Why would we think he’d be better at it ?
On whether Kelly will succeed at LSU, consider Jimbo Fisher.
At FSU, Fisher fielded one of the best college football teams of all time and won a national title. His tenure was like an upgraded version of Kelly’s at ND, 2017-2021. Fisher left FSU unexpectedly to take a huge contract from an SEC West team, Texas A&M.
At Texas A&M, Fisher has never won 10 games. He has never won his division. He has reached one major bowl, in which he beat a depleted UNC team. His best season, that year, was the strange COVID year.
Fisher is a better coach than Kelly, albeit maybe not by much. But I think his example is a preview of what Kelly’s future looks like — a whole lot of unremarkable 8-4.
Great points. SEC West is really unforgiving. I took a look at their 2022 sched, it goes:
-Florida State (at the Superdome, so basically a home game, not sure why FSU agreed to this)
-Southern (FCS road kill)
-Miss St (at home at least for first SEC test)
-New Mexico (what’s up with UNM and NMSt being SEC road kill seemingly like 10 games per year? They play SEC so much it seems like they’re IN the SEC)
OK, at this point he’s probably 4-0, or 3-1 at worst if they trip up against Miss St (which I’m sure it will already be red alert city for LSU fans if he loses SEC Game 1). Now, we get to October and it gets way tougher…
-@Auburn
-Tennessee
-@Florida
-Ole Miss
-Alabama
-@Arkansas
-UAB
-@Texas A&M
So basically 3 auto-wins from the non-conference games (plus a 4th in FSU that should be very winnable) and then it’s SEC time. As a fairly sunny scenario, I’d say they’re looking 9-3, and possibly any slip ups makes 8-4 pretty easy to get to. And in 2022 he’s avoiding the two best Eastern teams (Georgia, Kentucky).
Florida State, to their credit, does seem to like to open with a big game. Hasn’t gone great for them in most of the last decade but they do try
And after that I saw in 2023 they’re replaying in Orlando, so that would be why they did it. Neutral site games though (sigh). Would have been a cooler series on campus. And I mean if you’re going to play LSU in the Superdome, might as well go to Death Valley..
Kinda surprised the ND/Ohio State and ND/Bama upcoming home-and-homes are actually that with the way the big time games are now.
I don’t think OSU has played in Cincy or Cleveland (which would be the “big cities” with NFL stadiums) so they’re out. I could see Bama making us play in Dallas, I guess, they love it there
Bama isn’t going to play their home game in Dallas and then come to South Bend. And the games have been signed and announced, AFAIK, as games on each respective campus. Not sure why ND would give that up.
I think the series that are neutral (like the ND/Wisconsin series at Lambeau and Soldier Field) are settled at the time the dates are agreed on the locations are as well.
Right, they wouldn’t, Bama and OSU just aren’t great fits for neutral site home and homes unless Notre Dame wanted to move the game to Soldier Field (blech) or Indy (blech).
Bama/ND would have been a prime neutral site matchup. Play the ND game in Indy (probably the Alabama preference for temperature control) or back in Chicago. Play the Bama game in Dallas or Atlanta or whatever stadium they want. But that wasn’t agreed to.
Really, I’m sure the Bama folks don’t really mind the home-and-home in this instance, since they’re probably figuring they can win @ND just as well.
Off on this tangent with you guys — the only thing that could get me back to Soldier Field is an ND national championship game there. That place is a dump and should be condemned, but unfortunately is also a protected historical landmark.
The actual stadium in Indy is nice though. I’ve no problem with Lucas Oil. It’s a great place to play Purdue’s home games, for instance, and I’d definitely go there if ND were playing there on, say January 10th.
Soldier Field is a disaster. The location on the lake shore itself is great everything besides that is a mess. Too small, ugly/weird shape, amenities are crap, needs to be more accessible by public transit, etc.
Still going to crap on the Bears if they leave
I recently learned that Columbus is the biggest city in Ohio. I always thought it would be Cincinnati or Cleveland, because they have NFL and MLB teams.
I was using faculty tix for the tOSU game as some motivation until I looked and say you had to be hired by Jan 31 to be eligible, and if I get the jerb I won’t be official until August. Sigh.
A big difference is that aTm hasn’t been particularly good in 30 years. LSU is 2 years removed from a NC. It will be a lot easier to get LSU rolling than aTm.
Similarly, Les Miles and Ed Orgeron were 44-66 when not coaching at LSU. They both won NCs at a school that attracts an insane amount of talent.
Maybe. LSU’s NC teams didn’t look like anything Kelly has ever fielded, though.
Also — and this is mostly joking — isn’t it kind of a self-own for Kelly to think, “I’ll take that job, any moron can win a title there”
I’m still trying to picture him walking into the 9th ward to recruit kids. I can’t.
RELATIVE, AH, TO THE ER AH, CAFE DOO MONDEE TRAITS, TADAY, IN NOO ORLEEUNS
He doesn’t need to. Look at LSU’s current class. It’s #15 and has the same average player rating as us. And they haven’t had a coach for a while. If BK puts in the same effort with equally good recruiters, he’s looking at a significant recruiting bump.
Maybe.
I think this is going to be a Dan Mullen-ish mismatch and train wreck. But I admit that may be wishful thinking.
And their talent composite score has LSU at #5 this year with ONLY 75 commits (we #12). And I think a lot of that talent is young.
Coach O if nothing else was considered a fantastic recruiter. And he’s a native Louisianan. Kelly’s not really either of those things. I mean I get why LSU has an easier route to something of a higher talent level but I also think if anything BK held back our recruiting.
Oof!
[whispers] take me with you
They also don’t look like anything the Ogre has ever fielded. The point is, you can catch lightning in a bottle at LSU. Doesn’t take all that much.
Catch lightning in a bottle is right and I wouldn’t expect Joe Burrow to fall into anyone’s lap again.
And Justin Jefferson and Ja’Marr Chase and all those good players on defense. I think that’s the main thing that will make/break Kelly’s LSU stint is how much (if at all) he can up his recruiting game. If he doesn’t shift gears and recruit like an SEC powerhouse, he’s not going to be one.
Interestingly, I saw the RB from Gibbs from Georgia Tech that Kelly gushed about so much recently went into the portal. That is the type of player he really needs to nab. Will he? It’ll be interesting to see.
If he gets Freeman to be his DC or someone along those lines that will be the lead recruiter, I think LSU will do well. If he doesn’t, probably going to be out of a job in 3-4 years.
I mentioned it a day or two ago but yeah, having two guys who immediately became top 10 NFL WRs is also crazy. Lightning in a bottle for sure but Burrow is the cog there. The typical LSU QB experience probably squanders it.
I gotta admit, the prospect of Kelly calling all the asst coaches and none of them giving him the time of day and following him is just too delicious to me.
And my prediction is he doesn’t make it through four seasons. I actually think him supposedly trying to get Freeman and especially Rees is telling – he’s still going to want his Brian Kelly guys, not guys who are actually clued in on locals. We’ll see if that continues and he brings Elston, Polian, etc. down to LSU.
Yes, this. He thought he’d have everyone follow him. And they aren’t so far.
And now he has to hire a staff right after showing every assistant in the country that you can’t really trust him.
I already think this is a mistake for him.
(tentfingers)
((grin))
Just my unsolicited opinion, but I don’t think he relied on (or even foresaw) in anyway that Freeman, Rees, or Balis or anyone else would go with him to LSU. Nor do I think he cares that much. He’s at LSU; he’ll have plenty of quality assistant coaches to choose from. And not a single one of them will care about how he left ND or Cincy, because they’d all do exactly the same.
I could be wrong though
Right, I mean Kelly probably wouldn’t have left Rees and Freeman totally in the dark and then hung them out to dry in front of recruits if he was really committed to having them as “must haves”. Other than like Polian and Elston who are loyal and follow Kelly everywhere, I don’t think Rees/Freeman are quite on that level personally where their coaching careers are so totally tied to Kelly. (Which seems like Rees should be, but he’s young and has plenty of options and a ton of family connections in the industry).
I’m sure Kelly wants Rees and Freeman ‘cuz he knows they would help him at the next stop and as a manager we know he likes working with those he knows. But it’s going to be something he can live with and move on if they don’t join him.
Polian was tweeting about supporting the players at ND yesterday evening, so…
Read from Prister that Polian is the leading candidate to get HC job at Lafayette (the FCS team in PA). Probably not staying at ND, but not following Kelly, wants to be a head coach again.
You’re not wrong
He is going to have to field far better offenses than he ever did in 12 years at ND. Maybe that will happen but I’m skeptical.
LSU has advantages, but it isn’t magic.
And even if he get great players (very likely) and CEO manages well (most likely), he, himself, not a coordinator, has to motivate and inspire those guys on gameday to go to bat for him to actually win those big games (50/50, see any of the short ICON videos of his gameday speeches before during or after the game, I can’t follow them, there like something an invited conference speaker gives at a corporate retreat). Old players talked about it on Zorich’s podcast, that the coach has gotta be a lightning rod on gameday. Maybe it really doesn’t work like that I don’t know. I’ve just know always felt like “there is no way this amps any of these kids” when I’ve listened to Kelly’s speeches.
So I agree he might run into trouble at LSU.
Players and talent win games, not speeches. At least not very often. I don’t disagree that he has had problems connecting with his players. It’s mostly documented that he has.
He wants Freeman to join him. Desperately. He’s seen what the guy can do on the recruiting trail and how players respond to him. Makes sense.
As far as recruiting ease/difficulty, sure it’s SEC west, but LSU has a ton of advantages. It is the only school that matters in a relatively populous, football crazed state. There is a ton of talent in their back yard, and the school has none of the academic burden that ND places on prospects. It is much easier to put freshmen and transfers on the field, since they don’t have to acclimate to the full demands of Notre Dame (LSU offers athlete-only dorms, athlete-focused curriculum, lower minimum hours, etc.). This makes quick success much easier, especially at “skill” positions that don’t need intense physical development. Also, the breadth of transfer talent is greater, with JUCO kids available.
Finally, I’m willing to bet that the NIL opportunities at LSU blow away anything that Notre Dame would endorse. We are a large, affluent fan base, but few of us live and die for football the way that fans do in the south. My old lady would kill me if I committed a large sum of money from a family business to sponsoring an 18yo quarterback prospect, but that doesn’t seem to be the case at the most rabid CFB programs in the southeast.
Going back to the Stanford review, which I believe was the current article when BK scuttlebutt started getting out, the comment counts for each article are: 113, 217, 347, 15 (The Heisman is stupid article), and this is already up to 61.
Chaos is a ladder…for 18S.
During the slow period between ESD and the major bowls an article idea might be to show traffic change over this crazy period, if you don’t consider it proprietary. As a non-website-runner it’d be fascinating to me.
I basically haven’t left since Monday is that one visit or multiple?
I’ve been much the same.
Can’t say I’ve missed the banner of doom, but if there were ever a good time to have one, it would have been Monday.
Me writing this article…
lol
https://twitter.com/mattfreemanISD/status/1466142469914075144
Someone went through and found all the footage LSU pirated to shop their Kelly pump up video. It’s amazing.
Some of the comments are majestic.
This is hilarious. I was wondering whether LSU flew out a film crew or just edited existing video. Now we know.
I hope there are lawsuits from the content creators.
If Kelly proves the doubters wrong and is “successful” at LSU.. for argument’s sake wins SEC CG or a CFP title, is that an indictment of ND?
Well to be fair, it IS impossible to win an SEC championship at ND.
But to be serious, no. It’ll be made into it potentially by the people who want to spin in that way, but if Freeman or Fickell or whomever can do well, then great. It may be better off for both parties.
No, not really. It means the academic standards are for sure a hurdle and that will probably scare some coaches away, but indictment is probably too harsh.
Any chance for any “Louis Nix” commitments right now? Would love to see a commitment for ND from a player like Nwankpa even before a coach announcement
We were effectively out of it for Nwankpa even before this excitement.
Will he be welcomed back? Man that’s a tough question. Right now, I’m pretty angry that he would try to poach assistant coaches at a time where a CFP birth is still technically in play. That’s pretty scummy. If Freeman and/or Rees leave before our next game, I don’t know that I would be able to really welcome him back.
On the flipside, if those assistants stay and keep us as a 10+ win team (i.e. Freeman HC, Rees OC, Elston DC or D Line coach, Balis SC), then I have to be pretty content with everything. Kelly elevated this program back to a consistent level that it hasn’t reached since I was a child. If the Coordinators he brought in keep it there, then I would call that a 95% successful tenure for Kelly. It would be hard for me to be upset with him, especially after his time as HC at LSU is over.
When Kelly went back to UC for the 10th anniversary of his Sugar Bowl team it was still a very mixed welcome and they introduced him after the team while everyone was cheering.
I think this is pretty close to a best case scenario for him at ND because of how he left. ND may have a more gentile fanbase than UC, but a lot more institutional memory. I don’t know that subsequent program success will help get Kelly re-bucketed within the institutional memory from they way he left.
Kelly’s best case is being looked at like the way Bryce Harper is in DC. Key figure bolts, team wins the very next year (or soon after) without him anyways, he is a punchline.
If Notre Dame doesn’t do so well post-Kelly, he will be less a punchline and more villainized, especially if he has success at LSU.
I have a good friend who went to UF during Urban’s heyday. He HATES Urban now. Nothing one has done will soften the blow of them leaving you.
So right now a lot of the tea-leaf readers among us think Marcus is the marginally most likely person to be hired, but as time goes on without any information at some point it’ll seem like we’re waiting for someone to be nominally-more-available post-Saturday games and the tea-leaves will look more like Fickell.
Is there a timetable this week when people will start to think Freeman is no longer the most likely candidate without any additional information?
Also, Pete’s teasing people and the replies are funny:
Not to jinx it, but it kind of seems like this is going to be done tonight.
All the “say the line” memes are killing me
I was seeing an announcement is coming tonight or tomorrow morning but that could be wrong.
Either way, it seems like there’s a lot of (white) smoke coming out that it’s a matter of time before Freeman is announced here in the near-ish future. What an exciting time!
I think if we don’t have an announcement by tomorrow then it gets dicey on Freeman. Especially given the playoff situation. If it’s longer than that we’re waiting for Fickell.
https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/1466188906911735818
(Pete commenting on Tyler Buchner tweeting out a “payTommyRees” hashtag.
Drew Pyne just did as well. QB Nation showing up late to the party
Great thread, and as all we wait to hear the news, I can’t help but think the site will go down from all of the traffic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdtPNRzuKrk&ab_channel=Weyland
A big FWIW caveat (since Mick also said sources told him on Monday night that Freeman would be named interim coach), but it might be happening, people!
Assaf needs to stop, he’s got people spun up on Twitter.
I’ll wait until I see an actual media member or the official account confirm it.
CJ Golson reporting the same thing. Not sure if that has any weight and if I knew how to imbed tweets I would.
He says:
BREAKING: Per source, #NotreDame OC Tommy Rees is currently negotiating a pay raise that will allow him to stay in South Bend under soon to be official Head Coach Marcus Freeman, where he will have more control of the offense than under the previous regime.
Not sure who that is. But an announcement tonight would be awesome.
Strange way to break the news: couch it within the news of Tommy Rees?
Very.
He seems like a good guy who is connected to the locker room, but I think he’s just going with whatever the players are sensing. He’ll probably end up being right, but I’m not sure his sources are great.
My read as well.
Gosh OSU and their QB recruiting. They just got the former USC commit this cycle Devin Brown to commit to them.
Him, Ewers, Stroud has another year, there’s another guy who was like the #6 QB from either Stroud or Ewer’s season. That’s how you get it done
Sounds like they might have an extra 5-star or two who might eye the portal…
In time I’ve got to imagine at least one of them splits but as others have pointed out, Notre Dame is an even longer short for transfer requirements than freshmen admission
A few thoughts.
None of these switches end well. If we are upset about Kelly leaving with a chance at the playoff. How would we feel about taking Fickell when they are IN the playoff. This is different than when we took Kelly away from a meaningless bowl. I would lose some respect for Fickell if he walked out before the cfp to be honest.
I think that is why the timing with Lincoln Riley was it what it was. He made them wait until there was no championship possibility for OU.
We saw what an indifferent recruiter could do at ND, Willingham. Kelly is better than indifferent, he is just not relentless. Freeman is relentless. Rees seems to be good too.
If it is what it looks like, the person I think we most need to keep is actually the TE coach. I think Rees needs a sounding board on play calling and he has been a play caller. If he doesn’t stay, then we need someone who can help with Tommy and with the offense generally. Losing the only boss he really has ever had will be tough for him.
I assume Mickens will become DC.
As for the rest, I would love Elston to stay. However, I want to give Freeman free rein to choose his staff. He needs to believe he can succeed.
Have any of the assistants actually resigned to go to LSU or elsewhere? Quinn and Elston are the only assistants that were with Kelly in Cincy. Quinn didn’t come to ND until Buffalo fired him.
If Freeman keeps Quinn, will he still be small-timey to borrow the NDNation polite term?
If Quinn wants to go to Baton Rouge I’ll help him pack.
Addition by subtraction
I would pay Elston more than Tommy. He needs to be priority #1.
Interesting thought, and I agree. We’ll never know for sure, though.
Also, if Oklahoma had won, there’s gotta be a non-zero chance that Kelly is in California right now, right? (And I don’t mean still recruiting on behalf of Notre Dame…) Perhaps USC would have be patient and waited for Riley but they also might have wanted to just get things in gear before signing day and go with a stablizer like Kelly.
Whether these Freeman rumors are true or not, I would just like to thank Touchdown Jesus and whoever the Patron Saint of Football is for ensuring that Pat Fitzgerald had a terrible season this year.
I had a nightmare last night that he went like 8-4 and won the Big Ten West this year and then beat Michigan 10-7 in the Big Ten Championship and was offered the ND job on the spot.
I do think Pat knows he has the ultimate gig at Northwestern. He goes 3-9 and no one cares. He goes 9-3 every 3-4 years and everyone is over the moon
Precisely. And Fitz literally just got extended like last week. I know the rules now are that there are no rules, but the timing makes it a non-starter. So it would seem.
I think the dumbest thing I saw so far on twitter (with no great source, so it might have been BS) was that Adam Gase said he would be interested to listen to Notre Dame. And I’m sure he would be, but I don’t think anyone from ND would be talking to him..
The media has created their own problem by having to give a list of candidates for every opening, and copying and pasting half of them to every one. From the outside I get why “oh, he’s at another Midwestern private school, and was successful, so maybe he’d move to a bigger version of it” works for Fitz, but that’s so superficial it’s almost worthless. The candidates are Fickell, Freeman, and Campbell, and if you get down to Campbell then it’s worth thinking who might be the next call, but I don’t think you get past the first two.
Doesn’t he HATE ND? I feel like he’d be as bad a fit as Pat Narduzzi, because both of them hate ND (and Narduzzi is trash).
I’ve totally lost track of where this rumor kept popping up, but someone was insisting that Narduzzi was likely to sign on Tuesday, which was up there with the funniest things I’d read.
Would he then use the introductory conference to complain about ND not being in the ACC? God I hate that man.
This has to mean Freeman is the coach. I don’t know how it doesn’t, unless for some reason Fickell is like “yeah, keep that Rees kid, he seems good.”
I do think that’s a real possibility. Freeman seems more likely but it wouldn’t shock me if they vetted this with Fickell if he’s the guy (and I still slightly prefer him to be the guy)
That does make some sense, but I think all signs are pointing to Freeman as the more obvious thing to read between the lines.
Further, Tyson Ford, the DE commit who only committed because of Freeman, tweeted a smiley emoji 17 minutes ago, before the Rees news. It’s a lot to read into an emoji from a kid, but I’d bet he’s hearing positive things on the Freeman promotion front..
Oh agreed I think Freeman is looking likely, just that Rees staying isn’t a surefire sign that it couldn’t be Fickell or possibly someone else. I’m gearing myself up for it to be Freeman, I like the choice, now if it’s going to happen let it happen.
Perhaps not surefire, but it would be pretty unusual for an established, external HC to have his OC (and QB coach now, per Prister) dictated or in place for him. Doesn’t disqualify but sure tilts the likelihood against such a scenario, IMO.
Or he’s agreed in principle and wants to keep continuity on the side of the ball he’s not an expert in. I’m thinking it’s about 95% Freeman, but do you think he’d be bringing Mike Denbrock in as his OC? I mean, maybe?
Looks like trying to squint to see something that’s not there, but that’s just me. Occam’s razor and narrowing the possibilities means an OC in place before the HC doesn’t imply a likely external HC.
I agree completely. Pretty sure we’ll have CMF by tomorrow afternoon.
Keep going!!!!!!
I’m higher on Rees than most around here, I think this will be a very positive development in the short-term. (Also pretty much has to guarantee the Freeman promotion is next)
classic fortuna. Lots of filler words but not much content. like seriously, nice guy, but hard to hear him talk
It’s one sentence. Not sure what the “filler” is.
I dont understand that logic. Critical for whom? ND would be comfortable with that? Rees is even younger!
How so? Apparently Freeman likes Rees and wanted him to stay.
Freeman, Rees, Ballis…can’t ask for a more solider base
Maybe I’m confused by the word choice. Retaining Rees is critical to promoting Freeman? I don’t understand what that means.
As a condition for Freeman to agree–I have seen it several places that Freeman wanted Tommy to stay on.
Oh, he’d decline the offer? I’m getting hung up on the word critical. I’m not knocking Rees.
We’re parsing 240-character tweets, man. Don’t get too hung up on any of it. I’m sure it’s a nuanced conversation that we’re getting in tiny disconnected bits.
Fair enough, lol.
Rees runs the offense going forward, with more autonomy than in the past with no Kelly to hang over him. The offense put up over 35 points per game this year, Rees is still young and growing. Freeman needed and wanted this in place, ND stepped up $$ wise to keep Rees from going to LSU. Makes a lot of sense to me, and is what a lot of people have been wanting to see as far as not losing an important assistant due to a paycheck.
Also, a lot easier for Freeman to take over if he doesn’t have to go searching for an OC.
Rees is a key for or bunch of the 2022 kids.
CMF is the new CBK
On3 is reporting Marcus Freeman as head coach. They’re not as established, but they’re burning a lot of cash trying to create a Rivals competitor. It’s not a joke establishment.
“expected” is doing a lot of work there. Not sure they’re wrong, but I’ll wait until other establishments say it.
Bleacher Report CFB has it too, but they’re not exactly reputable or saying anything that’s not out there anyways.
Irish Sport Daily contributor via Football Scoop reporting multiple sources tell him CMF is done.
OFD (TOS) reporting CMF.
https://twitter.com/NDFootball/status/1466217910989430787
Tommy speaking to the team. THIS is certainly definitive.
“I care too much to leave this place”
“I can’t answer any questions” lol
Cat not all the way out of the bag just yet, I wonder if ND and Freeman are in the details of the contract and getting it official.
I’d imagine so. At this point it’s the worst kept secret lol
We keep an entire building on campus filled with people who can notarize things. Grab one of them and get this thing finalized.
There might be other benefits to the law school, but they’re not important right now.
Can’t believe Tommy made them come in at 8:30 pm just to talk for 1:28
HAHA!
The silences taking out Tommy’s cursing are pretty funny.
Not surprising since McNulty is a Rees guy, but another piece staying in place. Wow this new HC has a lot of staff in place….
If Feldman is tweeting it, it’s probably legit.
Also seeing that McNulty is back as well.
It’s starting to feel less like BK abandoned the team and more like there was a coup lol.
You did it. Best comment of the coaching turnover.
I think he really misread the room on ND vs. LSU for his staff
100%. I don’t want to read too much into it but doesn’t help any of the “BK only thinks about BK” messages floating around.
Mick Assaf shout out is *chef kiss* perfect.
Truly the funniest time
John McNulty will be back as TE coach.
https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Article/Marcus-Freeman-to-be-Named-New-Head-Coach-at-Notre-Dame-176801701/
#200