The Notre Dame 2023 recruiting class officially got under way with its first commit on June 29, 2021. That was 157 days before Marcus Freeman was officially hired as the new head coach for the Fighting Irish. This Wednesday, the Early Signing period opens up for college football effectively ending the 2023 cycle for the vast majority of recruits and college football programs.
The first full Freeman class has done a lot of good things, got off to a very promising start, and hopes a few high-profile misses will be overcome with strength in numbers and an excess of 4-star blue-chip talent. As things stand today, this is the 2023 Fighting Irish class:
Notre Dame’s 2023 Recruiting Class
Class Size: How High Can You Go?
As mentioned last year, the days of signing only 18 or fewer recruits in a cycle may be gone for the foreseeable future. As long as Notre Dame prevents itself from bringing in 12 to 20 transfers like some other programs–and the transfer portal remains as active as a Vegas penny slot machine–the Irish will be forced to make up for it with really large recruiting classes full of freshmen.
The craziness should probably calm down in the future with some new NCAA rules (1-time free transfer probably gets re-visited) but this is the first of 2 recruiting cycles where programs can sign more than 25 players as long as they stay under the 85-man limit by the fall. Including grad transfers, Notre Dame could be adding upwards of 65 new players to the roster for the 2023 and 2024 seasons.
In order to add that much new talent, the Irish will have to shed an awful lot of personnel over the next 12 to 18 months in order to stay under the 85-man limit. I think people are realizing–in addition to the general craziness of the free agency portal mania–this may not necessarily be in the best interest of the players.
Flip SZN: Steady Work
Notre Dame ended up officially flipping twice as many prospects for 2023 as they did in 2022.
Defensive lineman Boubacar Traore was committed to Boston College for 19 months before smartly leaving their class this past March. Six weeks later, he committed to Notre Dame.
The world’s fastest human Dylan Edwards committed to Kansas State in June but left their class just over a month later after being offered by the Irish. He’d officially join Notre Dame’s class a week later. But then stuff happened, more on him below.
More recently, quarterback Kenny Minchey was flipped from Pittsburgh. He spent 7 months in their class before joining Notre Dame. Offensive lineman Christopher Terek was also another recent flip from Wisconsin. He spent 5 months with the Badgers’ class.
Minchey has cut his fro 🙁
Lastly, Notre Dame flipped edge rusher Armel Mukam after he spent a couple months in Stanford’s class while wide receiver Kaleb Smith joined the Irish class on December 1st after spending 10 months with Texas Tech.
The Losses: Don’t Get Worse, Please
Some people would include the rumored silent verbal from Dante Moore (0.9947) in this section as a 5-star loss. The current no. 11 overall recruit ended up committing to Oregon on July 8th, although there’s scuttlebutt he’s flipping to UCLA soon.
The real 5-star loss was edge rusher Keon Keeley (0.9960) who is the no. 10 overall player in the country and committed to Alabama last Monday after leaving Notre Dame’s class on August 17th.
Cornerback Justyn Rhett (0.9086) committed to Notre Dame 11 months ago, left the class in April, and joined Georgia’s haul 9 days later.
Offensive tackle Elijah Paige (0.9129) was an early summer commit to Notre Dame, then left the class 3 months later committing to USC on the same day.
Running back Sedrick Irvin Jr. (0.8875) was one of the first commits for Notre Dame back in September 2021 and decommitted 8 months later. Five weeks afterward, he joined Stanford’s recruiting class.
Eleven days before officially signing to Notre Dame’s class, the speedy Dylan Edwards (0.9270) left the Irish class. I was as big of an Edwards fan as anyone so this one is going to take a while to digest. He ended up committing to Coach Prime’s Advertising Agency on Saturday, December 10th.
Decommits 2 days after this photo. What did they do with the giant Notre Dame posters?
Oregon and Washington are still recruiting running back Jayden Limar which is something to monitor, as a flip to Oregon has looked more and more likely in the last couple weeks. There was some curiosity around taking 3 running backs and it may turn out Notre Dame only signs 1 tailback in the end.
Will Peyton Bowen stick?
Freeman Impact: It Feels Better, But No Miracles
An entire recruiting class shouldn’t boil down to just 1 player but it’s difficult not to assess this cycle on whether or not elite safety prospect Peyton Bowen ends up sticking or ultimately fleeing to Oklahoma or elsewhere.
If he sticks it’s a huge relief at a position of need. If he chooses the lifeless eyes of Brent Venables over our beautiful head coach it’s a huge blow to the recruiting chops in South Bend and the final nail in the coffin to a disappointing finish to the class.
There’d still be plenty to like about the class but the Keeley, Bowen, Edwards, Limar, (and Moore) losses would overshadow an awful lot.
Adding More Talent: Close Up Shop
With early signing day we’ve pretty much witnessed the end of verbal commits and new signing around the January all-star game circuit and early February signing day tradition–at least at Notre Dame. Once mid-December rolls around we’re ready to close things up, work on the transfer portal, and move on to the next recruiting cycle.
Last year, we did have an exception! Running back Gi’Bran Payne decommitted from Indiana on March 8th and ended up signing with Notre Dame on April 15th.
The Irish have offered 165 prospects in the 2023 class to date. From that group, only 11 recruits remain uncommitted.
Earlier in December, cornerback Solomon Davis (0.8786) decommitted from Arizona and Notre Dame has been sniffing around for any interest. It seems like he’ll be sticking somewhere in the Pac-12 as that’s where he’s been visiting schools in recent days.
Notre Dame was also interested in defensive lineman Mason Robinson (0.8761) but he committed to Penn State last Tuesday.
Notre Dame was in a battle with Clemson for athlete Khalil Barnes (0.8828) but with Brandyn Hillman’s commitment last week it signaled the Irish had likely moved on and he ended up picking Clemson this past Friday.
Wide receiver Taeshaun Lyons (0.9161) was being zeroed in on by Notre Dame for a long time but things had cooled in recent months and after Kaleb Smith flipped from Texas Tech most didn’t expect him in South Bend. Lyons named a top 4 of Miami, Notre Dame, Oregon, and Washington 2 weeks ago and committed to the Huskies this past Friday night.
Most Underrated Prospect: Armel Mukam
I have 4 nominees for this award:
Limar – A bit of a forgotten recruit who averaged nearly 10 yards per carry as a senior with a state championship in his back pocket.
Hillman – His versatility kind of hurts his profile, most think he’s a lot better than his rankings.
Smith – He’s really, really low rated. It’s difficult to project him in college but I would guarantee that he’ll outplay his rankings probably more than anyone else in this class.
Mukam – Ultimately, I settled on Mukam because of his rawness and ceiling. He’s coming in without much fanfare and could end up being an impact player.
Class Recap: Left Wanting Something More
Like many before him, Marcus Freeman was subjected to the annual rite of passage (plaguing Notre Dame seemingly every year since the late 1990’s) dealing with early recruiting cycle success and hype that doesn’t quite finish as well as everyone hoped.
He’s holding the baby, at least this Bowen isn’t going anywhere.
Freeman officially became a Catholic this past fall and now he’s truly a Notre Dame Man™ for experiencing a full recruiting cycle as the Irish head coach. Notre Dame spent most of the 2023 cycle in 1st or 2nd in the team rankings and will try to hold on for dear life for a top 10 finish.
It’s a very good class, set against a 8-4 record and the complications (shall we say) of recruiting in this NIL era of audacity. Still, the gap to the tippy-top of the rankings remains steep and when you see 4-loss Texas, 4-loss LSU, 6-loss Oklahoma, and 7-loss Miami all near or above Notre Dame’s ranking it leaves a bitter taste.
Strengths: Offensive Skill & Playmaking
The loss of Edwards takes away from this strength a bit, as would Limar. Adding Minchey late in the process helped to stabilize things. Running back wasn’t a huge need and the trio of players committed felt like a ridiculous amount of wealth, but ridiculous amount of wealth is really good! Not being able to bring that home stinks but isn’t the end of the world.
Given Notre Dame’s recent past with wide receiver recruiting this 2023 class feels like hitting the jackpot. It was incredibly important to hit talent and numbers this cycle and they did a good job checking both of those boxes.
Weaknesses: Pass Rushing
Oh, Keon Keeley. He was the one defensive line ace in this class and also the one recruit you could be sure was going to be a problem for opponents getting after the quarterback, maybe as soon as September 2023.
Now, I’m not sure this class really has anyone sticking out as a future starter capable of half a dozen sacks and double-digit tackles for loss. Notre Dame has been looking around at some other Vyper prospects but as of this writing it doesn’t seem like anything is going to happen. If it does, it’ll be a big surprise this week.
# of Early Enrollees: 14
I swear, this never ends up being 100% accurate but according to 247 Sports we have the following players coming to campus in January, sorted by position:
- QB Kenny Minchey
- RB Jayden Limar
- WR Braylon James
- WR Jaden Greathouse
- WR Rico Flores
- OL Sam Pendleton
- DL Devan Houstan
- LB Drayk Bowen
- LB Jaiden Ausberry
- LB Preston Zinter
- CB Christian Gray
- S Peyton Bowen
- S Adon Shuler
- S Ben Minich
Stocking up nice and early at wide receiver and safety looks awfully nice. For spring practice, Notre Dame may be a little light on the defensive line, though. That is an area where a couple grad transfers would be awfully nice to have next month.
5-Stars Remaining: 7
It would be nice if Notre Dame was involved with at least one of these guys!
No. 13 Overall, DE Damon Wilson, Venice, FL
Wilson is likely headed to either Georgia or Ohio State, especially after Keeley picked Alabama.
No. 16 Overall, ATH Nyckoles Harbor, Washington, D.C.
The 2023 class unicorn at 6’5″ and 225 pounds with blazing fast track times has taken official visits to Georgia, Michigan, South Carolina, Maryland, and Miami with the Terps, Wolverines, and Gamecocks the likely finalists.
No. 17 Overall, TE Duce Robinson, Phoenix, AZ
The nation’s top tight end has been considered a heavy USC lean.
No. 18 Overall, DL James Smith, Montgomery, AL
Smith is looking at a choice between Bama, Auburn, or Georgia.
No. 18 Overall, CB Desmond Ricks, Bradenton, FL
Ricks is deciding between Alabama, LSU, and Florida on December 22nd. The Tigers are the presumed favorite.
No. 22 Overall, DE Qua Russaw, Montgomery, AL
Russaw has several schools still vying for his services led by Alabama, Auburn, and Georgia. Most expect him to pick the Crimson Tide when he announces on Wednesday.
No. 31 Overall, DE Matayo Uiagalelei, Bellflower, CA
The younger brother of D.J. Uiagalelei is down to Oregon, Ohio State, and USC with a decision coming up on Signing Day.
Notre Dame’s Final Team Ranking for 2023: 10th Overall
Based on the top-end talent available and their leanings it would appear Notre Dame will definitely finish behind Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Ohio State, LSU, and Miami.
The next tier of Oklahoma, Clemson, Tennessee, Florida, Oregon, and USC will be interesting to see if they can move above the Irish.
From 1st to as far as 10th?
If Notre Dame loses Bowen and Limar the 247 Team Composite will drop down to 279.94 points. That would be below Oklahoma before Bowen is factored into their score. If USC signs both Robinson and Uiagalelei mentioned above they will easily pass that Notre Dame score.
Should Peyton Bowen stick (and the Irish lose Limar) the score only drops to 287.33 and it’s possible Notre Dame holds on to the 7th spot.
Clemson, Tennessee, Florida, and Oregon will have a tougher time getting past the Irish but it’ll be extremely close in this 9th, 10th, and 11th ranked area for these programs.
Tom Loy with the crystal ball for Limar to Oregon.
Well I guess that’s the one piece of good news for Oregon.
I bet Freeman and Bowden have to be lol’ing at this
It’s worth a sensible chuckle.
gonna be pretty sick for Miami when he transfer portals there in a year
My best guess:
2023-24: UCLA
2025: Michigan State
2026: Youngstown State
dang it yeah I couldn’t remember where he was from and forgot it’s Michigan. That might be perfect. Think about the Michigan State hype he’ll get
Very thorough and wonderful writeup.
There’s a fitting bitter irony that as soon as Notre Dame really gets the type of recruiter to work his ass off and cast a wide net and appeal to 5-star players….NIL happens and suddenly a new type of ceiling is back in place due to the situation now more than the ability of the coach.
But, that said, I’m encouraged by the blue chip ratio, there are gains in quality for RB, WR, CB (all areas of recruiting unimpressiveness under Kelly), LB continues to be strong. Just gotta hit on that QB
Yes, the blue chip ratio of over 80% is not something to take for granted. It’s a big deal. Putting together multiple classes of 80%+ blue-chip ratio will make a difference.
The commit flips make it really difficult to be excited about any commits going forward. To have these dude’s committed for so long and then lose them (seems like everyone is predicting both Limar and Bowen to jump). I feel like a scorned lover – “I don’t believe in love anymore! Didn’t our time together mean anything at all??!!” LMAO
By the way, this is not a dig on the kids – I get that they are 18 yr olds just trying to figure life out. No shade for them.
Yeah, I kind of dove into recruiting this cycle as Freeman turned up the excitement meter. The increasing news of Peyton Bowen’s flip (the fact that it still hasn’t happened probably annoys me as much as anything) drove me away again. I’m back to passively following and being aware of things but trying not to get too into it. It’s too annoying to be treated as the backup option for the hot guy/girl while waiting to see if the cream of the crop throws them some flirty eyes or NIL bags.
The Keeley decommit hit me in a way that made me really tune out of it this year
The “will he, won’t he….when will he?” routine from Dante Moore was pretty exhausting too. Especially last winter/spring when it was trending positively before it became more obvious by summer that he was drifting away.
(And also more about the frustrations of process in general, not the kid going through it. Not their fault, just the way it goes).
Yea, some think Bowen hasn’t completely made up his mind yet actually and while the Sooners were trending, ND is not actually out of it yet.
Preach. Also, I don’t if I’m just being cynical but I feel like some of these schools are flat out being gross. There’s something about these schools leaning on fears of homesickness/leaving a girlfriend etc. with zero regard for what is actually in that kid’s best interest that is just hits wrong (maybe that’s not happening as much as I think, so maybe I’m off on this). It feels like there’s a used car salesman thing going on (especially with NIL involved now). It seems like there should be some responsibility on the part of a coaching staff to want these kids to make decisions that are truly in their best interests. But it just feels like it’s devolved into find their weakness, pick at it, and hey “buyer beware.” Maybe I’m just butt hurt from this cycle.
Other things: Totally agree that the fact that the Bowen flip hasn’t happened yet is even more annoying than the speculation that he’s going to flip. Also, the predictions on which way these guys are leaning is weird to me. Like, how the hell do you know? Did he say “psst, bro, I’m leaning to OU but I’m not sure, but don’t tell anyone”? Half the time I don’t even know which way I’M leaning in important decisions; I’m not sure h ow someone else would be able to
For Bowen specificially it’s mostly his girlfriend is committed to Oklahoma for soccer and he’s visited Norman like 14,000 times.
Yeah – I had heard that about the girlfriend. That’s what got me thinking that OU is leaning hard on that angle, which feels gross. I mean, it’s the worst reason to choose a school. It’s one thing to stay close to family, because that’s your priority…….but that clearly wasn’t the case considering he committed to ND in January. But what else could OU be selling at this point if it’s not that? NIL money I guess is another big thing. But I gotta assume ND is offering something substantial on that front too, even if it’s not what Oregon and OU are offering. Certainly, OU can’t offer the academics/4 for 40 of ND. I would also think ND wins the who is closer to being competitive on the field debate. And it sounds like early playing time would favor ND as well (right?). So other than OU harping on “hey what’s best for you is to stay home, hang with your boy Jackson, and be with your girlfriend” what is Brent selling this kid?
OU has seven top-100 kids, whatever they’re selling it’s a pretty good pitch and fit for top talent. Honestly, aside from “better education” (which from some perspectives is a negative for having to work harder to earn it), I don’t see what Notre Dame can offer him that Oklahoma couldn’t, with added value for more friends and the gf going to OU as well.
It is (hopefully) telling that he hasn’t formally de-committed yet, but 5-star kids’ verbal commitments don’t really mean that much these days unless they are totally solid in it. Bowen is also the exact opposite of a solid verbal, still tweeting things recently like “the school I choose” and stuff in a present-tense.
Fortunately, the staff has recruited him as being up in the air and not treated him like an actual commit.
We have a good women’s soccer team, better than OU. Perhaps we should flip her.
With the open transfer rule now, kids being enrolled and on campus doesn’t necessarily mean they’re committed to staying on the team.
Essentially:
I mean I think these journalists do talk to the kids and they talk to sources in the programs about what they think.
Hopefully, the whole NIL thing calms down once someone gives a 7 figure guaranteed contract to the next Trevor Lawrence who turns out to be the next Dayne Crist
i do think this kind of thing will happen. I’m just not sure when. It still may take 3-6 years for it to happen.
DJU is right there
It will be tough to compare Freeman & Kelly with the NIL stuff coming into play, but it seems like BK settled for slightly worse classes and didn’t get involved with likely flips towards the end. The flips bring down the vibe but overall the class is really good.
Would you rather have Minchey or P. Bowen in the class? Obviously not a real trade off just funny to think how bad it felt not to have a QB and now the S flipping might feel worse.
I think hitting on a QB would be much more significant than signing a top notch safety. Bowen seems more of a sure thing but, Minchey plays a more crucial position. I’d rather Minchey.
I’d take Bowen over Minchey. I guess for me it comes down to that if Minchey disappeared, nothing much has to change. If/when Bowen doesn’t materialize, it would be a bigger loss.
You’re gonna get get a transfer QB for 2023 and maybe even 2024 and then hope Carr is the answer some time after that. Notre Dame really shouldn’t “need” a QB from this class if it’s not an elite one, though they needed that and didn’t get it.
Safety, on the other hand, is a huge immediate need. Bowen probably sees the field in some capacity right away if he’s the talent he looks like and should be a multi-year starter with high-end upside.
Additionally, pairing Bowen with two great CB takes in 2023 would show that DB recruiting is tangibly improving in the Freeman era and puts them in great spot moving forward.
yes, one should always prefer the more likely NFL player over the less likely one.
One should always prefer a good QB to a good safety. I suppose I’d agree withs Hooks more if I was undervaluing Minchey as much as he seems to. I’d prefer to get off the transfer QB train as soon as possible.
Yes all things being equal QB is more important. But here the choice is between a 5 star safety – which is often close to a surefire NFL player as compared to a middle to low 4 star QB – which is a huge crapshoot. Take the surefire high-end player over a crapshoot.
You might be undershooting Minchey a little bit. Angeli was a low 4 star, Minchey is solidly inside the top 200 nationally whose stock may have risen more after really good Elite 11 performances last year had he not been considered solidly committed.
Minchey isn’t so talented and developed that we should expect him to change the program as a freshman, but he’s talented enough that there’s a chance he could be the reason a team wins a lot of games during his career. IMO, be excited, we got a good QB prospect.
Exactly 1077. Minchey has all the tools. CJ Carr is a long time from now. A QB in this class was an absolute need. QB>Safety every day.
Minchey might have all the tools and every year ND has a bunch of players who “should” be rated higher, but x,y, and z happened. Sadly, the recruiting services are quite accurate and 5 stars are about 3 times as likely as 4 stars to make the NFL.
Add in that Minchey won’t likely start as a freshman, and has a 5 star coming in behind him, it’s about as likely that Bowen makes the NFL as it is that Minchey becomes a starter.
Exactly. The only way I’d take a QB over Bowen is if the QB was also a 5 star. I’d consider it perhaps if the QB was at least a top 50 player (maybe top 100).
Though I did just notice Minchey has moved up recently to 165. So that’s nice but still not a sure thing the way Bowen is.
QB is the most important position in CFB, by a mile. What would have cost ND more games, removing Kyle Hamilton from the roster or Ian Book?
As we have no transfers yet and no idea who one might be. CJ Carr being a year from even signing and realistically 3 seasons from playing. a QB room of Buchner, Angeli and Powlus. I’m not down playing Bowen but, a QB is very important in this class and the #12 QB is nothing to sneeze at.
I think the point the poster is making is not arguing that QB is more important than safety. It’s that the #2 safety recruit is much more likely to be an impactful player than the #13 QB recruit. Certainly agree there’s an argument to be made that Ian Book was more impactful to the 2020 team than Kyle Hamilton (but also there’s a pretty good counterargument), but one can’t just assume Minchey is Ian Book and not Brandon Wimbush.
Another way of putting the point above is that going into their careers the hypothetical o/u starts-at-ND line for Minchey would probably be something like 5.5 and for Bowen more like 25.5. If Minchey turns into the starter, sure maybe he’ll be more important than Bowen, but odds are he will never be the guy at ND, whereas odds are very good that Bowen would be a starter perhaps as soon as next year.
Exactly (though I think there might a be typo or two in there that would affect your point if taken as written – but I think your meaning is clear enough).
You’re right, the Minchey eval is the most important factor for where you stand. I think he could be a decent QB, not trying to minimize him, just think he’s more “found money” type where if he ends up being good, that’s awesome. But if he is lost in the shuffle, no biggie.
Best case scenario, I hope you’re right and Minchey is special, but given how most top QB’s are very boom/bust, the percentages probably suggest Minchey is more likely to contribute very little.
I think Bowen will be very good. Way higher floor. Obviously good QB > good safety, but I see it more as “likely non-difference making QB < good safety”.
Hopefully some of the latest tea leaves are right, and we don’t have to choose and will see them both 🙂
This is where I’m at too. And given what we know this is what you’d have to choose, even if it turns out Minchey is a real difference maker. At this point it’s just a crapshoot at QB.
ND’s recruiting class heading into ESD:
I wonder if MF will start shopping down a different aisle and focusing on traits?
If he ever says “right kind of guys” I’m punching out
Overall, a class that hits on a lot of needs. Bummed about Edwards and if they lose Limar. I would probably take Love over both of them if given a choice. Bowen and Keeley are daggers though. The sad thing is, I don’t think it would have mattered if ND went 12-0 and looked like the 2000-2003 Hurricanes; this class wasn’t going to
And for that reason is why I’m back out on being excited about recruiting like Andy said in his comment. I’ll read the write-ups, but until they’re on campus tough to get up about their potential. Plus rarely are the Freshman we’re most excited about making an impact at ND.
Lastly, the NIL stuff isn’t going anywhere. It’s always been in the shadows, but now we get to talk about it and coaches get to complain about it to their boosters in a public forum. I know ND’s stance on the matter and have read most fan’s stance. I’m not asking ND to become TAMU and not expecting these kids to not have to go to class, be real students, or not get their degrees.
Just realized I didn’t finish my thought. I don’t think this class was going to finish out any stronger even if we had went undefeated. I think the NIL is too much of an influence (rightfully so if you ask me) for the 5* kids that this class is lacking.
Good writeup. My concern about this class is that it will end up being just good enough that the administration thinks things are working fine and think our NIL approach is appropriate. Hopefully there are some voices in the room and/or Freeman is willing to say to the powers that be that what we’re doing right now really won’t cut it if ND genuinely wants to compete for national championships.
I think the bigger question will be the transfer portal. If you look at the entries from TAMU, there seem to be a lot of 4* who probably are getting a pay cut in favor of freshmen. I think we will see a lot of that. We did see it with DJ of Clemson. He had $1MM from Dr. Pepper and is transferring out.
The interesting thing next in NIL will be whether money gets guaranteed regardless of whether you play. I am sure it will follow the old SMU model – the bag money stops when you aren’t delivering.
I think portal is the bigger issue too. It seems like we’ve mostly been locked out of the top tier of most 5*s for a while now even pre-NIL but the gap is now probably official and larger. Transfer portal is something of a huge own goal that could be fixed more easily.
Fair points. Relatedly Michigan is crushing it in the portal right now.
Pyne just transferred to ASU, my alma mater and the only other college team I like. I’m not sure what to feel right now. Lol. It feels kinda like when you make a bunch of moves in solitaire and finally get a black 10 so you can move that damn 9 of hearts that’s sitting on the big pile at the end only to reveal the 9 of diamonds under it!
Maybe this is Karma for all the TFR defending I’ve been doing about him recruiting Pyne.
interesting – esp. given the new offensive mind that just took over.
Will be an opportunity to judge TFR in game type stuff if Pyne ends up starting there.
Agreed. That’s a really interesting situation if Pyne plays. I guess it’s hard to imagine that Pyne does start. But obviously if he’s a take he must be at least one of the 2 guys competing to start.
Unrelated to him playing or not. Hanging in Tempe as QB1 or QB2 is a year of life I wish I could experience.
I can confirm that hanging at ASU – even as a nobody like me – is a good time.
As far as recruiting classes impacting transferring possibilities, here’s a few class numbers (2021-23) from a couple of schools not necessarily in major recruiting areas in comparison to Notre Dame and assuming their ’23 classes numbers remain the same:
Notre Dame – 75
Oregon – 63
Clemson – 64
Lots of discussion a few years back about taking 25 instead of 20 recruits per year – pre-Covid extra years, which we have done. For whatever reason, those schools did not and with transfers out have the room for transfers.
The question might be should we live with smaller class sizes and living with being thin at some positions that we could potentially fill with transfers?
I would say load up on recruits until the school decides to let in 5+ transfers per year.
That’s the only way to try to make up for the fact that we can’t take many transfers.
ND is 75 (counting Limar and Bowen, so adjust accordingly), but that still a bit misleading since there’s already six gone due to five transfers and a medical car accident retirement. I would hazard to guess more attrition is coming by the end of May on that front as well since several in the 2021 class have been recruited over and are unlikely to even make next year’s two-deep.
The extra covid year has jammed a lot up and is a unique situation, but I think they definitely should be trying to take 25-30 in high school. Portal has widely increased movement and ND doesn’t take too many extra. If that strategy/philosophy morphs, maybe they switch gears a little to less HS and more portal, but we’ll see just how dramatically that goes.
Clemson already has 25 commits this year, I think their low quantity classes from earlier were more a function of pandemic and Dabo’s style (which he is loosening up on) rather than intentionally looking to keep their numbers down from HS to be more flexible on their totals.
Most the elite schools are at 23-27 2023 commits as of now, and most are still hunting for more if they can get quality. I suppose they will have even more churn than Notre Dame, since they are also more active with incoming portal entries.
Our signees may not have the churn other schools do because they commit to having that degree to ND as a ROI. From the three classes of ’20-’22, expect to lose 10% of each class per year.
Class of ’20 – 17 enrollees, 12 remaining (loss of 5 over 3 yrs)
Class of ’21 – 27 enrollees, 22 remaining (loss of 5 over 2 yrs)
Class of ’22 – 22 enrollees, 20 remaining (loss of 2 over 1 yr)
Those three classes average 22 enrollees per year (66 total). Even is we lose two verbals, 24 commits for ’23 leaves us at 78 (54 remaining from above classes). As of now, ten scholarship players remain from the ’19 class (not counting Mayer, Salerno and any other walkons to scholarship awarded in ’22 and new transfers in) – 88 total. Also, for players from the last three classes eligible for Early Entry into the Draft, we have had five players who have not used another year of eligibility.
A large early enrollment group does allow for more players to potentially transfer after their third year at ND, easing the pressure on total scholarship numbers. Add Salerno, Vinson, Shrader and we’re at 91 with taking an average of 22 enrollees per year and those others factoring in – before offering fifth years. I don’t see 25-30 high schoolers.
We’ll see, I mean they’re hoping and were fine with signing 26 tomorrow, though we know it will be 24 or 25. I was too bold to float as high as 30, that’s too much of a stretch, but continuous 24-26 HS entries isn’t unrealistic.
I’d say the calculus is wrong figuring in only 10% churn pre-graduation now that the free transfer rule is in effect. Pyne being the perfect example, though QB is a jumpy position, so too is just about everything besides OL and it will be churning more accordingly.
I’d agree with you that EE will help cull the herd and see guys move on with degrees as another driver of finding space to take more HS recruits.
Taking 27, 22 and 24+ in the last three years all the while having a few extra covid year guys stay each year leans into what I’m talking about. That’s a three-year average of 24 and that’s under the absolute tightest of conditions.
I guess the proof will be in numbers for the 2024 class. If ND stays at 22 or below, then yeah, that’s evidence they might be shifting to restrict HS entries and pivot towards keeping space to add more transfers. But I suspect they will keep trying to take 24-26 HS in 2024 if they can get ’em.
Question for all: If you could wave a magic wand and make the ND transfer process simple and easy, how many transfers are you taking this year?
No specific number, depends on who wants to come and how good they are. If we could Bama it and have To’o To’o and the likes come in, go for it, though I of course don’t actually expect that. Churn, baby, churn.
QB, DE, WR, S, K (already have), P? (Is McFerson ready? If so no real need) – so between 5 and 8 with 2 DE/WRs if you got multiple top guys in this dream scenario.
Taking non-grad transfers right now is a two-pronged problem for the Irish, because even if you can remove admissions completely as an obstacle the pool of transfers who:
Might not be that big. Our three most productive transfers recently, excluding specialists who are unlikely NFLers, have been from Northwestern, Northwestern, and Harvard.
Along your punter point, it’s tough to keep up but ND recently grabbed a grad transfer punter from Penn. First team all Ivy in 2022. That’s basically Notre Dame’s specialist minor leagues at this point.
I saw Ben Krimm’s announcement, but wasn’t certain he was given a scholarship. I guess he probably was. Here are his stats at Penn. A bit variable, but 11 of 44 punts over 50 yards, so he’s got the leg when he hits it well.
II podcast said he’s a preferred walk-on
Gotcha, even better deal for the program then. I wasn’t sure his scholarship status, just that he was joining up.
I moved our 18S depth chart over to 2023 and if we’re looking at starter/key backups I’d take these positions, from most needed to least:
QB
NT
WR
DE (assuming Justin Ademilola stays it’s still needed)
DT
S
OG (depending on how they feel about Kristofic/Schrauth/Coogan/Spindler)
You could maaaybe argue for a corner, too. I have a feeling, no info, that Lewis could graduate and leave. That would leave Hart, Morrison, Mickey, and a whole lot of nothing in terms of experience. Having the 4th option is so important.
Said depth chart:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IdHU3CYiFN-Rb8YRz0RL5ddDsdQPBe15AcqCf6QnRS0/edit#gid=553065817
You know a 2023 preview is coming up next month. #hype
Oh it better be lmao
Interesting. Do you think this is a sort of beginning-of-the-transfer-era thing, or do you feel like most schools (maybe not ND if they don’t address the logistics of it) are going to be grabbing or trying to grab 5-10 transfers per year from here on out?
Who knows, I liked my idea about snap counts for the ability to transfer. I go back and forth on the one-time free transfer thing.
The craziness can only keep happening when so many young players are taking off, even when a lot are in really good situations!
I think there needs to be change, but I’m doubtful that anything will change. All the major sports have embraced the offseason roster move drama almost more than what is happening on the field. With billions of dollars being thrown around, I just don’t see anyone sensible coming in and stopping it.
Coaches don’t want it to change either. It makes their jobs so much easier. Look at Marshall, they benefited from higher level recruits dropping down to them just as much as some teams maybe lost a stud player moving up.
Look at CBB example. I live in Illinois so I’ll use UofI as an example. For decades the HC has been beholden to the Chicago Public League coaches and the money games that the influential figures in the CPL played. If the Illini’s coach didn’t play along, Illinois wasn’t getting any of the top level kids out of the city. It basically sunk Bruce Weber’s career, despite IMO him being an excellent basketball coach. Now, you have Brad Underwood who has a top 15 team this year mostly with transfers. Underwood is able to have success and be able to tell the grifters and pushers in the Chicago Public League to go screw themselves, I don’t need you.
IMO, CFB and the NFL have been so popular for so long, especially relative to the other sports, because of the violence of the sports, the fact they play once a week, and that the Owners have had so much control over contracts they’ve been able to maintain roster continuity. That third part is cracking in both the NFL and especially CFB that I think it’s going to become what CBB has become for most fans. I root for this school, I’ll figure out who is on the team a month into the season but I don’t care about the story lines. My opinion is also probably different if ND was about to close on the #1 class with a couple of game breaking transfers. I’d be more excited, but honestly just fatigued by it all.
Would be a lot easier to figure who is on the team if they put names on the jerseys.
ha agreed! Needs to be done immediately. I would love a move to green (if done properly).
Yes NAMES and GREEN (like the baseball jersey’s green): that would be great.
The blue wordmarks and numbering that the baseball team uses on the green jerseys (and pretty much all the other teams these days tbf) is a big thumbs down for me.
Maybe an Under Armour thing? Hopefully to be ran away from soon. The helmet gold vs the pants in the football green jerseys these days is atrocious too. I love green, but not the UA offerings.
I’m just thinking of that color green. I don’t have much of an opinion about the rest of the details.
But I did think whatever the baseball team wore in the playoffs looked good.
I saw the team went Christmas shopping in the green.
CONFIRMED GREEN FOR ALL OF NEXT YEAR.
Don’t joke about these things.
This would just be amazing.
With this last-minute sense of hope on Bowen (realize this is pay content, but the headline is sufficient: https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Article/Notre-Dame-Peyton-Bowen-5-star-commit-Marcus-Freeman-200988261/), it’s going to be particularly painful if he decommits now.
ESD Open Thread is live and ready for tomorrow. See everyone in the morning.
https://18stripes.com/early-national-signing-day-open-thread/