I created a primer to this project which explains the way we’ll be ranking all 185 players. It will be a pyramid structure and as we ascend the players will get better and better. Follow along this off-season as we preach about all the wonderful talent that has played for Notre Dame.
Level 1, Wing 1
Level 1, Wing 2
Level 1, Wing 3
Level 2, Wing 1
Level 2, Wing 2
Level 2, Wing 3
Level 3, Wing 1
Level 3, Wing 2
Today, we finish the 3rd level of the pyramid.
ICONS
National Champion
Consensus or Unanimous All-American
Major CFB Award
43. Joe Beinor, OT, Harvey, Illinois (1936-38)
One of the strongest players in program history who threw the shot put for Lithuania in the Olympics. Beinor earned some All-American honors in 1937 before becoming an unanimous selection in 1938. He also finished 9th in the third-ever awarding of the Heisman Trophy after his senior season.
42. Bill Shakespeare, RB, Staten Island, New York (1933-35)
Shakespeare is certainly in the conversation as Notre Dame’s most decorated all-around player. He was Notre Dame’s career punting leader for over 50 years, still holds the record for longest punt in school history, led the team in rushing as a junior, while leading the team in passing and kickoff return yards over his final 2 seasons. Shakespeare never received consensus All-American honors but is in the College Football Hall of Fame.
41. Bryant Young, DT, Chicago Heights, Illinois (1990-93)
Young is one of only of two defensive tackles who are in the Top 10 in career sacks at Notre Dame with 18 total in his time with the Irish. He was a destructive force on the interior for Notre Dame and is ranked as one of the top handful of defenders of the Lou Holtz era. Surprisingly, Young never made consensus All-American honors but is still remembered as one of the best players from the early 1990’s.
40. Jeff Samardzija, WR, Valparaiso, Indiana (2003-06)
The in-state product had a slow start to his career before re-writing portions of Notre Dame’s record book as an upperclassman. Samardzija tied the school record for receptions in a season in 2005, then broke it in 2006. As a junior, his 1,249 receiving yards broke the Irish single-season record and his 15 touchdowns remains tied for the most in a single year. Samardzija is 3rd in career receptions and receiving yards and was a consensus All-American following the 2005 season.
39. Bob Williams, QB, Baltimore, Maryland (1948-50)
While a baby-faced 19-year old junior, Williams went 10-0, won a National Championship in his first year starting, and would ultimately set the school record for wins to begin a career at 11 games. His 1949 season saw him set the season record for passing efficiency (since tied by Jimmy Clausen) and his yards per attempt that year was the most ever at the time (now 3rd all-time). Williams also punted for the Irish and was an effective running quarterback. He was a consensus All-American in 1949, finished in the top 6 of the Heisman voting his final 2 years, and is a member of the College Football Hall of Fame.
38. Quenton Nelson, OG, Red Bank, New Jersey (2014-17)
It’s somewhat amusing to recall Nelson took a redshirt in 2014 before he began his assault on college football defenders. His career began a bit slowly in 2015 but by 2016 Nelson picked up several All-American honors. For his final season, he won unanimous All-American honors and placed his name as one of Notre Dame’s great guards in history.
37. Jerry Groom, C, Des Moines, Iowa (1948-50)
Noted as an iron man who played both center and linebacker at a very high level. Groom’s heroics on defense with a late interception preserved the win against SMU to win a National Title in 1949. Following his senior season, he was awarded consensus All-American honors and is a member of the College Football Hall of Fame.
36. Tom Clements, QB, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (1972-74)
Clements wasn’t always the most effective or flashy passer but his ability to win big games places him very high in the Pyramid rankings. As a 3-year starter, he passed for 3,594 yards and 24 touchdowns while also rushing for 1,070 yards and another 12 scores. When he left Notre Dame he won a National Championship and picked up some All-American honors as a senior while finishing 4th in the Heisman race. Clements is tied for the most wins as a starter in school history and has the 4th best winning percentage for any quarterback.
35. Golden Tate, WR, Hendersonville, Tennessee (2007-09)
Tate is Notre Dame’s only Biletnikoff Award winner as the country’s top wide receiver (first given in 1994). His 2009 season saw him finish with the 2nd most all-purpose yards in a season falling 22 yards short of Tim Brown’s record while not being a kick returner unlike Brown. For players who only stayed 3 seasons, only Rocket Ismail had more all-purpose yards in a career at Notre Dame.
His 93 receptions in 2009 was the most ever in a season at the time and 2nd most today. Tate is tied for 5th in career receptions and 2nd in career receiving yards while his 1,496 receiving yards in his junior season is the most by a mile in a season for Notre Dame and his 15 receiving touchdowns remains tied for first in a season. After 2009, Tate was awarded unanimous All-American honors and finished 10th in the Heisman voting.
34. Marchy Schwartz, RB, Bay St. Louis, Missouri (1929-31)
Schwartz won a pair of National Championships in Rockne’s last 2 seasons and was the leading rusher for Notre Dame for both the 1930 and 1931 seasons. His 7.54 yards per rush in 1930 stood as the 2nd best average for a season for over 60 years and is now 3rd all-time. He led Notre Dame in rushing, passing, punting, and scoring over his final 2 seasons. Schwartz’ 15 punts against Army in 1931 is still the school record. When his career was over he was Notre Dame’s 2nd all-time leading rusher. He was a consensus All-American in 1930, unanimous All-American in 1931, and is a member of the College Football Hall of Fame.
33. Steve Niehaus, DT, Cincinnati, Ohio (1972-75)
With all of the defensive talent imagine starting as a true freshman at defensive tackle in 1972 at Notre Dame. That’s what Niehaus accomplished while putting up an incredible 47 tackles (still ranks tied for 8th best for a freshman!) in fewer than 4 full games before being injured for the remainder of the year. He would finish his career with 290 tackles, 25 tackles for loss, and was an unanimous All-American in 1975 who finished 12th in Heisman voting that year. Niehaus’ 113 tackles in 1975 remains the most ever in a single season by an Irish defensive lineman.
32. Ralph Guglielmi, QB, Columbus, Ohio (1951-54)
The namesake of Notre Dame’s practice facility was a three-year starter at quarterback for the Irish and unanimous All-American in 1954. In that season, his 17.06 yards per completion was a school-record (now 3rd all-time) and he finished 4th in the Heisman voting. Despite never winning a National Championship, Guglielmi’s 26-3-2 record as starter is 3rd best in Notre Dame history. He also intercepted 10 passes in his career and was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 2001.
31. Walt Patulski, DE, Liverpool, New York (1969-71)
Patulski started every game of his 3-year career on campus and was one of the best defenders in the country for 1970 and 1971. Over his final 2 seasons he accumulated 34 tackles for loss and his 40 career tackles for loss remains tied for 5th most in school history. A captain of the 1971 squad, Patulski finished 9th in the Heisman voting and was awarded unanimous All-American honors. He was also Notre Dame’s first Lombardi Award winner, given to (then) the best down lineman or linebacker in the country.
30. Brady Quinn, QB, Dublin, Ohio (2003-06)
Despite never being named even a consensus All-American, Quinn re-wrote the Notre Dame record books for passing. He is the Notre Dame season and career leader for pass attempts, completions, passing yards, touchdown passes, total offense, total yards, points responsible, and is tied for the most wins as a starting quarterback in school history. Quinn finished 4th and 3rd respectively in the Heisman voting over his final 2 seasons and was named the Maxwell Award winner for the best all-around college football player following 2006.
29. Jim Seymour, WR, Royal Oak, Michigan (1966-68)
Seymour burst on to the scene in the 1966 opener with 13 catches for 276 yards against Purdue, both school records at the time. The yardage remains the best-ever at Notre Dame while the receptions was finally eclipsed in 2005. Seymour would lead the Irish in receiving all 3 seasons and when he graduated his 138 receptions were the most in school history, now 9th all-time. One of the best big-play receivers in the country, Seymour’s receiving yards per game remains 2nd best in Notre Dame history. Somehow, he was never even a consensus All-American but was a key playmaker on the ’66 explosive offense that went on to win the National Championship.
There’s a good argument to be made that Tate should’ve finished 2nd to Ndamukong Suh in the Heisman voting in 09. He was breathtakingly good.
Wonder where he would’ve landed on this list had he come back for his senior season…
There’s only ever one answer to the question “where would Golden Tate land?”
Brady Quinn at 30 is so much higher than I would have guessed. 58% career completion percentage. 7.3 career Yards Per Attempt. Arguably the best or 2nd best group of pass catchers and ND QB has ever had for his career. (And team results don’t help much here, with only 2 seasons finishing ranked and 0 in the Top 5). Not to mention absolutely no running ability and no rushing stats.
But I’ve always been a Brady Quinn hater (or rather, I just think he’s highly overrated and still very much enjoyed his career). For the sake of comparison, Book already has better completion % and YPA numbers than Quinn did. He doesn’t have the volume numbers, but I’d expect that to trend up this season with him starting all year. If he comes back for a fourth year next season and shows no improvement, there’s still a good chance he finishes better than Quinn in basically every metric except for yardage and total TDs (although his TD to INT ratio will likely be better than Quinn’s). I can’t imagine a world where this version of Ian Book is in ND’s top 100 players, let alone approaching Quinn.
tl;dr don’t tell my wife/mom/brother/every other ND fan in the world, but I think Brady Quinn is wildly overrated by ND fans.
I’m with ya. Never was a huge fan and remember him being not particularly impressive in big games.
That said, the MSU comeback was one of the greatest football games of all time. I don’t know if anyone else could have done it.
Neither was the rest of the team. That wasn’t so much a Quinn problem as a Weis problem, though as I noted above, Quinn didn’t have NFL accuracy, so he was going to suffer against NFL defensive talent fielded by tOSU, LSU, USC, etc. A lot of the positive feeling is because he ALMOST willed the team to victory against USC in 2005. Silly Brady, not getting in on the Bush Push tackle. But whereas that positive feeling wore off on Weis fairly quickly, Quinn graduated.
Honest question: were you around as a fan before he showed up, and were you a fan of ND while he played? Statistically, sure, he’s not al that impressive when you compare him to anyone since. That undersells how absolutely putrid ND’s offense, especially pass offense, was before Weis showed up. I’m not only blaming Ty. I’m not only blaming Davie. Even when I was there as a student under the tail end of Holtz, we were a run-first, pass seldom offense. And we had Derek Mayes, who I swear could catch anything. When Quinn showed up, Carlyle Holliday was the starter. He. Was. God. Awful. I had acquaintances on the team who privately were praying he’d get benched and Quinn would get the start. (There were some personal issues there, and it’s too far in the past and too third hand to go into it, but the bottom line was that Holiday was not good.) The year before, with Holiday as the starter, we didn’t score our first offensive TD until the 4th game or so, despite starting 9-0. It was mind boggling how bad the offense was. We all complained, all could see that Wimbush couldn’t pass this year, but holy crap he’d have been the starter and then-some from the end of the Holtz era until Quinn, with maybe the exception of…Matt Lovecchio. Let that sink in. Eventually Quinn got his chance, and took the offense away from Holiday. And he got crushed. Much of that career percentage being low is due to the crap he had to deal with for 2 years–HALF of his career. He was running for his life or flat on his back. His receivers were NOT the all-world crew they turned into by 2005. I loved Quinn because he kept fighting, kept at it no matter what, no matter how bad the team around him was. It’s easy to overlook how much the 2005 season was a revelation offensively. I still remember the first game against Pitt, thinking “holy $%#T we look like a modern offense!” Quinn was the leader, the heart of that team, and though we all kind of knew he didn’t throw the best ball, we were starved for what he and Weis were able to give us after the Davie and Willingham years. Now, the yearly stats aren’t that exceptional, and we forget how those first two years of Ken whathisnuts as his OC weigh down his career percentages. Yes, Quinn had some of ND’s best receivers/TEs, though I’ll point out he was before Tate and Floyd. Shark and senior year Stovall (yes relation) were amazing, and McKnight was…well, not as good as Senior Year Stovall, but serviceable. Quinn was a lob thrower–he wasn’t that accurate, and his receivers bailed him out, which is why he couldn’t survive in the NFL. But so what? He won games and set records for ND. Is it his fault that we only caught on to 1990s-era offenses in 2005? I’m not… Read more »
I was in fact around as a fan before he showed up (grew up in South Bend and I was 15 when he started his first game). I liked watching him play; I didn’t realize that the forward pass had been reinstated as a legal play in college football until he started.
But Jimmy Clausen had the worst offensive line I’ve ever seen, and he completed 56% of his passes in his worst season, nearly at Quinn’s full college numbers. Quinn was good, but the ranking on this list seems wildly high to me. (Also Rhema McKnight nearly put up 1,000 yards his senior year. He was a really good college football player). Like you said, he was an inaccurate lob-thrower. That was still fun! Two of his wins are in my personal top 10 for favorite college football moments I’ve watched (MSU comeback, watched on TV; UCLA comeback, watched from the stadium and spent 58 minutes thinking we were godawful, followed by 2 minutes of pure jubilation with the crowd).
Fond memories are absolutely fair, I cannot deny that even I have some. And maybe I’m just jealous of his good looks, or his really awesome current job calling college football games on national television. Both are distinct possibilities.
> I didn’t realize that the forward pass had been reinstated as a legal play in college football until he started
RIGHT? Not in college football, but seemingly at ND. Seriously, remember how bad those pre-2005 ND offenses were? Quinn gets a perception bump because before him our best passing QB was, who, Jarious Jackson? (Yes yes, Joe Montana, but come on–Joe was great in college, but he didn’t have the west coast offense to put up numbers). Clausen was a more accurate passer–there’s no doubt. But Clausen also didn’t exactly endear himself to people, and while he was individually an amazing passer, the teams he was on didn’t fare that well.
Again, I’m not arguing for any place on the rankings for either of them, but I think it’s pretty obvious why ND fans in general would think highly of Quinn.
I accidentally a word in your statement I quoted and read it as sarcasm. I blame it on being 2 AM….oops. I see now that you were agreeing, and have re-edited.
Quinn’s completion % by season: 45%, 54%, 64%, 61%. So under Willingham, awful, under Weis pretty good.
His JR year. Quite impressive (SR yr was also good, but less efficient).
64% – 8.7 y/a – 32 TD – 7 INT (plus 100 yds and a rushing TD, woooo)
I think due to the inherent lack of longevity in college, one’s highest high is weighted more than the career for this exercise. Especially in this case, I think ignoring Willingham years is very fair.
Great points. Plus just compiling 11,762 passing yards and 95 TD is a wonderful career. I am not here for Brady Quinn slander!
I thought I’d be walking into Floyd >>> Samardzija arguments on this post and instead get Brady Quinn scorching hot takes!!
I don’t know if his career YPA is an effective counter to someone who won the Maxwell Award. Everyone should recognize what a mess the Irish were offensively for 2003-04. For Quinn’s last 2 years he was 9th all-time in YPA and would have the top completion percentage in school history.
Do people not think Book would move very high up the Pyramid with 2 more seasons??
I think he could easily move into the top 50 if he’s competing for school records and would (hopefully) have a very, very strong record as a starter.
Samardzija didn’t even make it to the NFL!
He sucked as a freshman and sophomore too, just like Quinn!
but that flow.
Him and Brady made for a very pretty offensive.
I guess there is almost no world in which I could ever imagine Ian Book moving into the top 50 all time in ND history. But if Brady Quinn is a top 30 guy, then yeah, I guess I could see Book near there.
Also sure, if you drop Quinn’s 2 worst seasons, of course he’s going to look better. If you just drop Clausen’s 1 worst season, he would have the top completion percentage in school history, and his YPA was better than Quinn’s final 2 seasons.
If Book stays 2 more years and we project similar numbers and a pretty good program around him…
2nd all-time passing yards
5th all-time in YPA (a Holy Grail stats for you it seems?)
2nd all-time touchdown passes
1st all-time in 300-yard passing games
1st all-time in completion percentage
5th all-time in passer rating
This doesn’t really factor in improvement, either. Two more years and he’s probably no worse than 6th all-time in wins by a quarterback and would be tied for 2nd all-time with 20 more wins.
I have 20 QB’s in the Pyramid and 10 inside the Top 50. So, if you can’t even fathom Book being considered top 50 you must grade quarterbacks extremely harshly and/or push all except a few outside of the top 50.
Either way, I’m not really sure your formula would make much sense.
When I watch Ian Book play football, I never ever think “I’m watching an all-time great player.” At least with Quinn, there were times I thought that. Maybe that will change at some point for me with Book. But there was no point last season where I even thought he was one of the Top 10 QBs in the country.
He’s obviously got time to grow, but not being able to throw a deep ball kind of puts a cap on his ceiling for me.
Actually that’s not fair, the games against Wake and Stanford he was incredible.
Sorry, Quinn over Montana is ridiculous. You’re lost in stats, missing the forest for the trees, Eric. Not sure if Rice has come up yet, but also head and shoulders over Quinn.As are others.
I’d also suggest eliminating all players before WWII at least, if not later. There is no real basis for comparison that is relevant today.
Szamardzija—- no way he’s that high.
Credibility diminishing by the layer, with respect for the effort.
There’s the acerbic kiwi that everyone loves!
Quinn over Montana isn’t ridiculous at all. Also important to note there’s only a 39-spot difference between them in the thousands of men who have played football at Notre Dame. In addition, most of the credible lists I went over didn’t have Montana ranked as high as I did. NBC didn’t put him in the Top 100 from several years ago, for example. Plenty of people who watched him during his career have admitted he wasn’t an all-time great in college so if you’re worried about “stats” there’s plenty of writing over the years that would easily have Quinn over Montana.
Feel free to lay out the case though! Why be so passionate and make no case at all? That seems super lame.
If you’re worried about getting in lost in stats, why eliminate players before WWII or later? That doesn’t seem like a well thought out argument to me.
Samardzija…..don’t bring up credibility and spell players names wrong. And Rice was No. 49 overall.
Ok, fair enough Eric. I’ll make the Montana argument when I have a bit more time. One data point is how many NC’s Quinn led ND to? None, vs Montana one. I’d also guess but don’t have time to research, that Montana had more comeback victories and against better competition than Quinn. Quinn’s stats are better because Weis was pass happy.
As for Jeff however he spells his last name (cheap shot Eric 😊) he was ok. Other than the late TD vs UCLA I honestly don’t remember anything significant from him. I’d take many receivers over him.
I was at the Fiesta bowl up the road from here in Tempe when Quinn and Jeff S (you spell it) played tOSU and looked like they didn’t belong on the same field with the buckeyes. Another embarrassing bowl defeat.
Montana IMO is the best ever football player out of ND. Probably the best QB ever in football, won every Super Bowl he played in, with zero interceptions. He had a couple of horrendous injuries, so Brady has passed his records via longevity, but I’d take Montana over Brady with the game on the line. Yes, I do take into account his NFL career, which you don’t, and you have a supportable rationale for the sake of your piece’s premise, but you might also acknowledge there is no other player in ND history more famous or in contention for GOAT.
Meanwhile Quinn couldn’t make the lousiest team in the NFL. Good player, by no means one of the greatest QBs in ND history except from a statistical point of view (other than NCs).
As for the pre-modern guys, totally different game, very few national powers then vs today’s relative parity, none of us have ever seen them play, and come on, 140 pound DT etc seems meaningless.
With acerbic (good and fair word) respect for your work Eric.
Montana as the top ND player ever? Man, that is the hottest take in this series!
Obviously, the NFL stuff doesn’t and shouldn’t matter. This list would be pointless and meaningless if Harrison Smith was in the top 5 because he’s a future Hall of Fame safety in the NFL. I don’t know how you’d rank current NFL guys, especially early in their careers, or pre-NFL era, or someone like Rocket who went to the CFL, or guys who had career-ending injuries. Judging what happened in college is difficult enough, adding the pro layer to it just doesn’t make sense.
A title for Montana is a nice data point but hardly a major one in a vacuum–and also would keep him far from No. 1 overall if that’s his greatest achievement. His comebacks are a cool part to his myth but also part of playing poorly as an offense (plenty of blame falls on Devine’s coaching) to falling behind in the first place. If Montana truly was No. 1 in school history I would think weeks 1 and 2 (and week 3) of 1978 go a lot, lot differently.
I can see how weaker schedules and more passing hurts Quinn in people’s eyes–we’re still talking about a Maxwell Award winner which should mean a whole lot. We also have to factor in Montana having a defense behind him light years better than what Quinn had and the program as a whole was multiple times stronger in the 70’s than under Weis. It’s these differences that make the list fun to weigh because winning is important but on an individual level you can’t hold losing against someone if they didn’t have a lot of help, either.
Thanks for the compliments, by the way!
Fun stuff. So if you could pick one ND player out of everybody that’s played, who would you choose? Guess we’ll see that in who you rank number one
I’d still pick Joe. THE GOAT. Sorry Tom Brady, you’re number two in my mind.
I realize I’m looking at entire playing career, not just college. Interesting that both were so under appreciated in and as they left college, Yet I’d wager one or the other would be most fans first pick to start a football team.
I get that you and I are not using the same methodology. I would take Jack Snow over John Huarte, for instance. Yes, Huarte won the Heisman for his one meaningful season of football. Snow had an equally breakout year in college (ok, no Heisman) and was a star in the NFL.
Want to talk baseball?😉
By the way, I define acerbic as without sugar coating. Served me very well in my career. It helped that CEO’s respected my judgement and my track record was tops.
For the record, I liked and rooted for Quinn, always. Never understood why Willingham had to be talked into recruiting him by one of the other players, I forget who that was. But he was over-rated in college and definitely on NFL draft day. Meanwhile Montana was under rated in college and on draft day.
As for this site, its the only ND site out of all of them that I read religiously (although I admit strictly interested in football, and not so much in the recruiting aspects of it, since that’s all a crap shoot IMO once you get past the Reggie Bush’s etc). The writing here is consistently professional, reasoning well thought out even if I disagree, and relatively un-homer. Your former site is a mess, btw.
Also if you do a Pyramid of Notre Dame moments next, Tate jumping into the MSU Band should be immediately after every National Championship victory, thank you.
So are we down to 4 QBs remaining for the top 28? I thought Quinn would be mixed in there with the Heisman winners given his incredible prevalence in the statistical record books (plus the Maxwell plus two top 5 Heisman finishes).
Props to Bill for taking down this section’s all-name award.
5 quarterbacks remain.
“Shakespeare is certainly in the conversation as Notre Dame’s most decorated all-around player. He was Notre Dame’s career punting leader for over 50 years, still holds the record for longest punt in school history, led the team in rushing as a junior, while leading the team in passing and kickoff return yards over his final 2 seasons.”
It was teammate Frank Bacon, wearing Shakespeare’s number, who did those things. Wake up, sheeple!
Don’t be ridiculous… It was Edward de Vere wearing his jersey!
The Gug isn’t named after a player… but the real story is pretty cool: http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stories/101405abt.html
Wait, seriously??
I mean, it’s cool if you’re willing to accept that any situation where a guy gave a lot of money to a school to get a building named after him is cool
I feel like Tate has to be the highest ranked skill position player of recent years, right? I’m curious if any are ranked higher.
Yes, he’s the highest ranked skill position player from 1991 through 2018.