Times change and people get older, it’s a fact of life. At one point this blog had a pretty young cast of writers although that’s not really the case anymore. I wouldn’t classify myself as getting cranky as I get older, although many feel that way about themselves all the time while growing increasingly cranky! I will say that 4 or 5 years ago there were a few Notre Dame game day concerns that I thought were pretty important. Today, I just don’t have the effort to care anymore.
Here are three of those concerns…
1) Unified crowd color, tee-shirts or otherwise
Don’t get me wrong I respect the hell out of places that can coordinate the colors in the crowd. Tennessee, Iowa, Boise State, Penn State, and Oklahoma are some of the college football programs that have pulled this off well in recent years. I’m also a fan of bright colors and most of these schools use them create a vibrant look.
Notre Dame doesn’t really do vibrant colors. Neither blue or gold work. Unless you go with super bright blue or yellow. Using white doesn’t seem worth the effort and would be doing it just to do it.
A bright green may seem like it could work but there are two issues. One, what percent of Irish fans really like bright green? To the point that they’d actively wear it on purpose? Same goes for bright blue or yellow, as well? Sorry, way too many picky fans who will never play ball. Additionally, even bright green doesn’t show up that well.
Green out effort vs. Oklahoma, 2013
One of the last efforts for Notre Dame was in 2013 while hosting Oklahoma. The school handed out enough pom-pom’s for half the capacity and the result is mixed at best.
To me, this isn’t worth it for Notre Dame. It’s not that cool to try and put in years worth of effort of picking a color (or multiple coordinated patterned colors) to continually see half-hearted attempts by fans. And it’s sure not important enough to keep The Shirt the same color every year, that’s like biting off your nose to spite your face. People think it will work but remember how fussy Irish fans about colors?
I’d say the coolest thing Notre Dame has ever done in recent memory was having the student section unravel the Irish flag during halftime of the 2012 Michigan game. Why not expand these capabilities? Why not take a page out of the soccer world and start getting super creative within the student section? It keeps the effort limited to a smaller amount of people and prevents everyone from trying to get a bunch of stuffy white people to ditch their sweater vests for a big game.
Want some ideas, go ahead and YouTube Borrusia Dortmund fan choreography, you’re welcome.
2) Concerns about opponent fan invasions
All three of today’s concerns come from an innocent desire for something good. In this particular case defending your home turf and building “home field advantage.” Everyone wants that, right? I know back in the day this used to be a huge issue for me at Notre Dame.
For this upcoming season the Georgia game has been circled as one that needs to see Irish fans defend their turf against invading Dawgs fans. That’s because you’ve been reading about how tens of thousands of Georgia fans will be coming to South Bend in September.
Also look forward to the tried and true 600% to 700% over-inflated guess about the number of Georgia fans an hour before kickoff.
— Eric Murtaugh (@EMMurtaugh) April 19, 2017
I can guarantee that whatever the numbers floated about now and during pre-game while the stadium begins filling up the actual number of Georgia fans won’t be near the rumored totals.
Also, is it wrong to think that a bunch of Georgia fans coming to South Bend is actually a good thing? Say what you want about the state of the Irish program at least this is flattering to us. Plus, these Dawg fans are likely to be rowdy and home field advantage or not at least they will add to the atmosphere. If the Irish end up winning I have no doubt the environment for this game will be much better with the Georgia fans in attendance.
I can’t say with a straight face that more Notre Dame fans for home field advantage outweighs a bunch of Georgia fans who are spending the time and money to really give a damn about football. I welcome them.
3) The band not having a major influence for the entire game
I know this one may be the most controversial it’s just I don’t know what the future holds for the Band of the Fighting Irish throughout football games. I sympathize with those who think this is a major travesty but to me there’s no denying the decreasing influence of the band in modern times.
I’m not sure how it’ll be reversed which causes me to be pretty apathetic about the band. They have a huge role on campus in the days before games as well as significant pre-game and halftime shows. These traditions don’t seem to be going anywhere and that’s important.
Yet, during games I don’t know who is really dying to hear the band anymore. At least, that love for the band has to be waning with future generations. If I had to pick I’d still keep them around to play some of the traditional songs that we’re all used to but I wouldn’t be devastated if it were stopped.
Right now, the band seems stuck. They have their typical highlight reel songs that they always play but they are being minimized with the piped in music and this is only going to get worse in the future with the new video board and associated video packages.
I’ll respect anyone who doesn’t like this change but I don’t really care anymore. My best advice for the band is to start working in concert with the student section on fantastic soccer-style displays to add some flair to halftime or in between commercial breaks. Innovate or risk dying.
1. I will fight to the death about wearing green on gamedays. In the interest of full disclosure, I’ll admit that I have worn an ND home jersey to the last few games I’ve attended simply because it was a gift and I wanted to show my appreciation.
Aside from that, Under Armour made a light green shirt for Chicago’s 2015 St. Patrick’s Day (and the opening of the UA store downtown) that works great for supporting ND. Apparently, I do not have any internet-worthy photos while wearing said shirt. If UA re-branded that shirt for ND, I guarantee it would fly off the shelves.
Back to the focus on green – I’ll let this guy do the explaining (sorry for excessive science):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG3MBcPaE8c
The problem for ND is consistency. For the Oklahoma game referenced, ND didn’t start advertising a green-out until the week of the game. I know this because my parents specifically said they needed to get my dad something green to wear, but ended up getting a blue sweatshirt with green sleeves. Poor effort, Mom and Dad.
Better, or simply more consistent, advertising would yield a better result. Just have UA create a Gameday Green line for ND apparel. I guarantee both UA and ND would like to sell additional merch.
Regarding fussy Irish fans, how many Irish fans do you know who only have one ND shirt? Or, put another way, how many fans who can afford to go a game at Notre Dame Stadium have only one ND shirt? I don’t think it’s that ridiculous to tell fans to wear green on gameday and whatever the heck else they want any other time.
Furthermore, The Shirt could continue to alternate colors every year as a way to allow the students to stand out. A decent number of people buy The Shirt regardless of how often they’ll wear it. I think The Shirt is a great cause, but is terrible for branding. It shouldn’t be the de facto gameday shirt for fans like it is for students.
*/End green shirt rant/*
2. This is easily countered by having ND spread the opposing team’s tickets throughout the upper bowl rather than concentrating them all in one area. It would take literally 5 minutes to change the opponent ticket allotment sections, then done. I completely agree this isn’t something to get worked up about, but it’s low hanging fruit. Plus, it exposes more ND fans to opposing fans, which could get everyone a little rowdier.
3. Agree. I think the band and students should focus on ways to create noise and a raucous environment. I wish ND actually used the pep rallies as a sort of gameday prep (Like TAMU’s Yell Practice) and that the stadium had more of a European football atmosphere. I would gladly welcome the Irish flag’s return.
1. I think consistency could partially help, but not much. We’ve literally handed out things to fans on a handful of occasions and many, many fans won’t partake for something that was FREE. Low fan effort plus too many colors are much larger issues. I personally don’t think it’s in the DNA of many Irish fans to care about this stuff.
Also, I’d love the bright green but are we sure it works well for football? For that OU game above the sun probably doesn’t help, right? Plus, the field is green and the contrast isn’t great. I’m trying to search for example of football “green outs” and I’m not seeing anything.
Maybe if the Seahawks fans all dressed in their secondary “action green” for a game? Looking at their Color Rush uniforms the contrast with the field is just….weird. Doesn’t seem very cool like Tennessee or anything.
2. I don’t think it’s an issue of just the opposing team ticket allotment which already is pretty limited to the upper bowl and in a smaller area compared to the rest of the stadium. Spreading them out sounds good but is probably much more of a headache logistically speaking. But I agree, whatever the amount of fans I don’t really care.
3. Word.
I appreciate the thorough reply.
1. I agree that, to a large extent, ND fans like to be individuals. Again, I think consistency would be more help than you give it credit for. Being an ND fan is a part of one’s identity, and I believe that an institutional effort to pick any single color (my preference being green) for gameday fandom would eventually be incorporated by the fans. One-offs aren’t supported because fans know they’re one-offs.
I also can’t say I’ve ever seen a green-out. And I must admit that I’ve considered the contrast might look strange, especially on a TV broadcast. But I think the experience in real life would trump the contrast notion. I think this picture is a fitting example:
Last point – it has been an extremely large missed opportunity not to uniformly wear Kelly Green during the Brian Kelly era.
2. I don’t think the number of tickets given to opposing teams is a problem; I believe the problem to be how they’re distributed throughout the upper bowl. ND has already implemented dynamic pricing for football tickets; I’m certain it wouldn’t be that difficult to evenly disperse the opponent ticket allotment throughout the upper bowl rather than concentrate it in one corner.
If Kelly wins a NC, I might agree with you on the Kelly green thing. Until then, it seems contrived.
#2. The problem isn’t with the opposing team’s ticket allotment, it is with the tickets visitors purchase on the secondary market. You can’t control who sells their tickets to whom — and that’s OK.
The home field experience is based upon team performance above all else. I was at the Michigan 38(1) – 0 game a few years ago. There were lots of Michigan fans, but they were forced to sit on their hands out of the game.
I’m referring more to the visual aspect than the stadium noise aspect. As noted in the spirited discussion below, there are many ways in which we can support a louder stadium experience.
I’ll add a brief two cents to this interesting discussion. If I’m an away fan, I appreciate the sportsmanship shown by putting all the visiting fans in the same area. Attempting to maximize home field advantage by sprinkling us about the stadium would seem a bit classless to me.
That’s a fair point. My counter to that, I suppose, is that most visiting fans are highly complimentary of us as hosts. I don’t think it’s always a bad thing to sit among the opposition.
The stadium looks more purple to me than any other color.
That was just a “one-off” done to celebrate all Brain Kelly memes.
3. They should move the band to the student section corner. I agree, coordinating them with the student section for some wild celebrations would be fun. I understand wanting to keep a bit of noise coming from both corners of that endzone by keeping them split, but I so go all out on this. Stick them all together and get some raucous action going down in that one corner. Maybe that kind of excitement will generate some buzz through the rest of the stadium.
And if it doesn’t, there’s no downside. At least it would look cool on TV.
What’s the verdict with Crossroads? The band will be in the stands on both sides of the tunnel, I think?
“Want some ideas, go ahead and YouTube Borrusia Dortmund fan choreography, you’re welcome.”
/throws flare at the USC sideline
If we didn’t have a band and the USC, or Michigan bands showed up I bet you’d missed ours big time, ie you need them to at the very least neutralize annoying opposing bands.
This is a good point. But I guess hypothetically speaking if both teams saw their bands air time decrease during games…
Re: The Band
I think the band has a pretty significant impact on the game experience now. I’m not sure why they would need to “innovate or die”. If you watch games on tv, I’m sure you could come away with an impression that they don’t do much, or add much. However, if you are there, they still have a big impact on the experience, IMO.
They come charging in before kickoff, and you watch in horrible fascination to see if one of the drum majors is going to slip and fall on his/her back. That gets the crowd pretty hyped for kickoff. They play after the scores and everyone goes crazy, high fives or does push-ups or whatever. Hearing the fight song start up is a big cue for celebration in the stands. Then the 1812 overture is a big deal, too. I don’t think the video board will change that. I do think they should hold off on showing the highlight of a touchdown until after everyone gets the celebration out of the way. That would actually extend the jubilation right up until the next kickoff.
So, I guess I’d say that the band was not a concern of mine before, and I am surprised anyone else was concerned. But, of course, the guys at TOS always need a list of at least 10 calamitous changes that mean they won’t ever donate another dime, yada yada.
We are probably on the opposite end of the spectrum re the Band.
At games enough people miss their grand entrance but I do think their pre-game schedule is still pretty important. I don’t know if they get people hyped for kickoff though.
I was under the impression the 1812 Overture elicited more of a yawn from people nowadays more than anything.
From my side I inexperience Band fatigue by the time the game begins which is why I mostly tune them out or honestly forget they are there. It’s even worse now that PA music is played much louder.
I’d probably consume things differently if I showed up Saturday, tailgated, and my first encounter with the band was during pre-game kickoff. But if you’re there Friday for campus activities or watch the Band concert it makes things different.
We all know what they are going to perform during games besides some marching pattern and use of fire extinguishers during halftime. Compared to a PA playlist that can and will change with the times plus the new video board content…yeah I do think that’s a problem for the future of the Band.
But I also realize that there are plenty of people who love the Band as is yet I’d say if you want them to continue having a large in game role there are some big concerns and questions to ask for the future.
There are huge concerns and questions for the future. You have laid out the biggest problems: stale, predictable, the “it” factor slipping into obsolescence. Why be concerned, as you say we really should not be?
Perhaps because the band could still be part of a reinvigorated, dynamic game day.
The potential is still quite large: wonderful students, by and large; an excellent reputation as one of the best university bands in the US; a big budget; nice enough unis; and a tradition of being an important part of game day.
The challenge is centered around the playlist; and when and how the band can and should be employed.
The playlist now is the equivalent of your favorite rock band deliberately confining itself to 25% of its big hit repertory; playing that 25% at a tempo and in a style that does not fire up its audience; and not exploring new songs.
That is precisely the problem faced by the band. It is fair to say that Dr. Dye – who should be given credit for all the many positive things he has done with and for the band – is a huge part of the game day problem. But this is all tied in to the bigger picture. The only response made to the piped in music challenge, was to mike up the band better. An important step, which missed all the key issues just mentioned.
There are solutions, to help the band be all it can be (and that is at best 15-20% of getting game day more impactful) but I am pessimistic about those solutions being found. I will be on campus in a couple of weeks and I am going to take another, probably final shot at all of this. Thanks for posting this topic; got me even more fired up.
It is entirely possible that I am overly complacent.
(Insert picture of Martin Shkreli here…something I failed at 3 times – Whatevs)
(Like a certain defendant in a criminal fraud trial)
Can the band just stop doing the same freaking Chicago-based halftime show seemingly every game?
I think the Chicago stuff is mostly a meme at this point. They’ve played with the band in 2006 and 2011 and I don’t think it’s been anything except a song here or there on occasion. I could be wrong, though.
When you look at this playlist for the band:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-0FPV6II58MlOlrYNDFjgXeJjDqeaJ9_
I really don’t have a problem with the songs, to be honest. It’s just the games are so long and they have to start repeating stuff. Or, worse still resorting to this during games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM7-THjx-vk
They should do whatever they want during halftime but it should be illegal for the band to play modern-day music when we have a PA system. Waste of time.
Eric, your Youtube links above really do cement the case. Note that you have to scroll way way down to find The Hike Song, When Irish Backs Go Marching By, or On Down the Line.
And the second clip is downright horribly awful.
I dont know, I’ve heard some really good covers of songs done by bands and they’re pretty amazing. Im thinking specifically of a few schools doing the Game of Thrones theme and that’s pretty fun.
What if we incorporated the Wild Rover into the football gameday as well? That’s a fun and humorous song for hockey games and it might be cool to do with the full band.
I don’t think the band should play any modern (rock, pop, rap, etc) music during the game day. Why encourage cheesier, softer, quieter music? Especially when we have the real thing now over the PA system! The band is best utilized playing songs tailored to their instruments.
The GoT theme is interesting, although it doesn’t seem to be overly exciting. Pretty quiet, tame, and meandering theme led primarily by cello and violin melody.
I don’t necessarily agree that you have to have fast and up-tempo songs to get the motivational factor out of music. I think part of why songs like “Blurred Lines” are poor choices for a band is because they are songs designed specifically for the HUMAN instrument, not a band one. They sound good when sung because the human voice can give it the proper sound. That’s not to say that a song that is sung cant be transposed well for a band, but it has to be carefully chosen.
“I was under the impression the 1812 Overture elicited more of a yawn from people nowadays more than anything.”
Eric, you may have just made the final case for FIRE KELLY! i mean, one’s name doesn’t actually have to be Lou, but a head coach with a single syllable first name is a necessity to return the 1812 Overture to its former glory.
Looks to me like the band director is phoning it in. They need new music and a fresh approach. Maybe they’ll get inspired by all the on-the-field changes.
As a musician, I can say that the emotional effect of live music is greater than that of recorded music. Most of us get most of our music from recordings these days, so it’s easy to miss that. If the band sounds stale — and it does — it isn’t because the concept of having a band per se is becoming stale. It’s because the band itself is going through the motions, because they’re sick of the music they’re playing. If they get inspired, they’ll inspire the crowd.
Agree and disagree.
I agree the band program isn’t taking a fresh approach during games. It seems like all of that energy is being spent on clever halftime marching routines which to me is okay because at least they’re trying to do something new.
I disagree on the live vs. recorded music, insofar as it pertains to use in a football stadium bowl with 80,000 people AND the 400-member band vs. giant state-of-the-art speaker systems. That’s not a competition the band can win for the most part.
I do think we’re witnessing the concept of the band becoming stale, at least in how they have always operated during games. I think it can be both a problem of this and going through the motions. Passion alone won’t make things appreciably better.
Great topic, good input. Not that anyone gives a damn, but my moniker here reflects almost 25 years of extremely intense efforts to work on the relatively quiet ND home games. After briefing three Athletic Directors, two ND Presidents, working with four ND coaches (Willingham only exception), Affleck-Graves, multiple sessions with all key players (Ken Dye (band), Jo Minton (“cheerleaders”), Mike Collins (voice in the pressbox), various VPs in the AD department, etc etc etc , I do have some background for these comments: 1, The colors issue: Eric is 100% correct. We are fated to be M&Ms of various colors, and so be it. In fact, based on discussions with the key players (namely the Faculty Advisors for The Shirt student committee), the reason for changing the color and design is not only to maximize annual sales to the benefit of the deserving legit beneficiaries of those sales, but to give max range for a full up student involvement in all the related aspects of a design/production/marketing project like that. This will not change. So Eric’s judgment is as often the case, vindicated. 2, The enemy crowd issue. Excellent discussion. Yes, better to keep them confined; the way to shut them up is to win (it will also help to be louder ourselves, duh, see below). To be honest, the fact of being “out-noised” in our own stadium by opponent fans ought to have shamed us into drastic action long ago, but that has not been the case to date. I will add one angry item: the USC band is so thoroughly disgusting, especially that absolutely horrific, personally revolting band director (yes, the #$%^& jerk in the trenchcoat and shades who plays their stupid “fight song” at all obnoxious and rude moments) that it SHOULD BE BANNED just like we did for the Cardinal “band.” 3, Re our band’s role: here Eric’s analysis is disappointing, because that whole issue is embedded in the much larger issue of how we can optimize all the inputs that should help our quiet crowd get noisier when it counts — and as a related aspect, for those rare games when our crowd actually gets quite loud, to get noisier earlier (PRIOR) to the snap during opponent plays. This involves the entire panoply of coordination issues, and Eric is wrong to shrug his shoulders about the impact of the giant screen. In fact, that board needs to be a catalyst to fix the whole range of problems,. which if done correctly will have the benefit of restoring the band to it’s rightful place among the other crowd dynamic inputs. To wit: 1, master the use of TV timeouts: — do the noise-numbing “recognition moments” like announcing scores, recognizing the janitor of the year, etc during the timeouts prior to us snapping the ball; but — use every second of timeouts prior to when the opponents have the ball to amp it to the max. That will involve: 3, cheerleaders actually leading useful cheers (here,… Read more »
Having graduated from ND before the Celtic Chant arose, I have always been mystified by its effectiveness in getting the crowd fired up. Since the crowd remains silent, it doesn’t really do much for me. Indeed, I’ve spoken with other ND alums of my era (admittedly, we’re likely the older, less energetic fans in the stadium) and I’ve yet to meet one who really gets excited up by it. Maybe some of the students or younger alums can explain?
I do like the pre-game ritual of the band, when they come marching into the Stadium. It is identical to the one used when I was there (early 70’s) and brings me back to my college days every time I see it happen in person.
As for Stadium noise overall, it will be interesting to see what the new configuration arising out of the Crossroads project does to the sound there.
I am somewhat mystified by the relatively quiet crowds at ND home games. When I was there, the crowd was crazed the whole time. This leads me to my thesis that the crowds will be loud when the team is consistently successful. We lost six total games in my four years at ND, so the crowds had a lot to cheer for (I think only two losses occurred at home in that period, USC in 1971 and Missouri in 1972).
As a younger alum/fan (class of ’14), I completely agree with your comment about the Celtic Chant. It takes all of noise out of the stadium and destroys momentum. A theory that my like-minded friends and I came up with, is that NBC likes the visual.
Hi Cardsfan 14,
It’s fun to have a classmate of my son Ray on this super site. NBC liking the visual — first I have heard that, and it’s not a bad notion of at least a contributing factor. Based on several talks with key folks in the band “process” I can say with confidence that the fact of the song being written by Dr. Dye certainly helps cement its role as one of the band’s overdone standards. But I can see NBC encouraging… hmmm, they could always use tape delay, if we can just get the band to play the CC at the beginning of the timeouts,
Maybe if we found some kind of vocal cheer to go along with the Celtic Chant? I mean, it is a CHANT, so why dont we have anything to say during it? Again, and not to oversell the hockey band, but at those games when the Imperial Death March is played during a PK, the whole crowd is shouting, “KILL, PENALTY KILL, PENALTY KILL” while doing the fist chop thing. You get visual AND audio to the thing.
Prob a good idea for the chant to have a chant.
I’d also alter the song, assuming we continue to use it as much as we do. I’d cut out the 5 second drum intro that no one can hear. And then limit the song to 0:05 until 0:20 seconds. If you incorporate a chant you could maybe repeat that stanza two or three times but it could also stand alone as a quick 15-second “chant.”
I’d be down for that. Let’s mix something up and figure out what lyrics we should yell during it.
Yeah count me as one that doesn’t care one way or the other about these issues. I also agree that consistent winning will solve most of these problems.
No interviews. Please respect my decision.
I know this article is supposed to be about things we DON’T care about, but it seems the comment section has kind of morphed back into things we DO care about and suggestions on how to change it. I have one suggestion that I think might help the band become a more integral part of it….why not continue to play DURING GAME ACTION? I know the reason we refuse to do it and it’s honestly silly because I guarantee you there is not a single officiating crew that is going to enforce any sort of penalty because of it. It just seems weird to me everytime we have a song going and as soon as the snap is imminent, the band stops mid-stream and a few instruments peter out while others play one more note or two notes and it all sort of feels odd. I say, keep playing the thing and let the opposing team deal with it. Maybe dont do it EVERY time, but every now and then throw caution to the wind.
Again, if the officials made that a big deal, I’d be shocked. I know I’ve seen plenty of other school bands overrunning the snap and nothing is ever done about it. Maybe what this all boils down to is ND as a whole(fans, administrators, players, coaches) are far too freaking polite. The Navy series, the never running up the score thing, welcoming everyone nicely to ND stadium and being accommodating, all of that adds up to the destruction of this scary and dominant HFA at ND.
Maybe that’s the thing I don’t care about anymore…being nice and above-the-fray all the stinking time. I say embrace the hate, embrace the jealousy, and spit in a few faces every now and then and step down on some necks when they get here.
That doesn’t seem worth it.
The band isn’t loud enough to bother an offense. So if it doesn’t why pollute the game with it? This is even more true for the TV broadcast. I don’t want to live in a world where a fumble sack is being accompanied by the band playing whatever. I can’t see TV personalities thinking that’s smart, either. Maybe it’s polite but with good reason.
Clearwall – I love the fighting spirit. Beyond agreeing with Murtaugh’s rejoinder, let me add that there is no real need for noise past the snap (it will keep crescendoing anyway). It’s before and during the snap that we should generate false starts and confusion. My goal has been how it was against us in Miami in 1989 – Lou told me that our own players could not hear our own QB in our own huddle.
Well, that part was just an illustration about a greater problem I see. It’s not the fact of playing music during a snap affecting the game, although it probably would some. It’s just a symptom of the greater problem that ND stadium is TOO welcoming and TOO friendly to opposing teams and fans. It’s because of that root cause that we dont have that hate for Miami in ’89 like you remember. My comment was more about let’s stop doing X, Y, and Z and let’s start getting a little un-welcoming and nasty to our invaders.