I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a team ignited by a flag before, but that’s what happened Saturday as an arcane rules interpretation screwed up the coolest fake punt of all time and pissed Notre Dame off enough to finish delivering a 3-touchdown second-quarter rage bomb in a 35-14 win over Virginia.
First up, if you missed it: Apparently the interpretation of the rule was that because Jadarian Price was not lined up far enough behind the line of scrimmage, the usual ‘kicking formation’ exception that keeps a team from needing to have its five linemen wearing jersey numbers 50-79 was not in play. From what I’ve seen in discussions, Marcus Freeman actually checked with the refs before the fake punt was run to ensure he was in the clear, and evidently the refs just decided the play was too cool to be allowed and flagged it anyway. (This explains why Freeman was level 5 pissed about it.)
For posterity:
Notre Dame with the fake punt BUT … ANOTHER FLAG ON THE PLAY!!! It’s coming back again! 2 Notre Dame touchdowns called back! pic.twitter.com/0YnDXfeYty
— The First Pizza Sports Show (@1stPizzaShow) November 16, 2024
Anyway, on to the game, which you could’ve just skipped the last quarter and a half of and been fine:
This defense is next level
It says everything about the Notre Dame defense (and a little about Virginia, too) that the Irish were half-asleep on offense most of the first half and yet were never remotely in real danger. ND went three-and-out four times in a row, hampered by penalties and bad execution, but the defense just kept bailing them out. The forced fumble shortly after Max Hurleman’s muffed punt* was almost preordained. ND simply put the clamps down, as they have on just about everyone all season. The secondary’s continuing to do what it does to receivers without its best player is just ludicrous – Adon Shuler, Leonard Moore and Xavier Watts each had an interception. We saw a lot of penetration by the defensive line – even if frustratingly little of it led to sacks – and the tackling top to bottom was very good.
* Apparently, another arcane rule I didn’t know about was that because Hurleman called a fair catch and muffed his punt up in the air instead of it hitting the ground, the defense was supposed to permit him to try to catch it. That strikes me as incredibly stupid, but it is also zero percent surprising that the ACC refs missed that deep-dive rule but spent 4 minutes trying to invent a reason to nullify the fake punt.
It almost doesn’t matter that Riley Leonard isn’t some crazy good thrower. The defense is that good.
RTDB
The running game is, of course, the centerpiece of the Notre Dame attack, and both Jeremiyah Love and Jadarian Price ripped off big runs to remind us of that Saturday. Love had the biggest, a 76-yard TD to highlight a career-high 137 yards in all. Not coincidentally, his 16 carries (and 17 touches) were a season high.
Love bomb
7️⃣6️⃣ yard rushing touchdown for @JeremiyahLove #GoIrish☘️ pic.twitter.com/4KYLqEs5FH
— Notre Dame Football (@NDFootball) November 16, 2024
Whatever Notre Dame’s ceiling is, it will revolve around these two backs, with Aneyas Williams’ increasing impressiveness also playing a role.
If only ND’s pass blocking was as impressive as the running game. Leonard did not have a ton of time to throw today, although outside of one horrendous decision that resulted in a pick, he was pretty solid anyway.
Presented without comment: The offensive line going against one of the best defenses in the country got called for one live-ball penalty, and the one going against Virginia got called for several.
Kicker concerns
Someday Notre Dame isn’t going to blow out their opponent and they’ll need a key kick. I’m getting a bit concerned about what will happen when that situation arises. It seems like Mitch Jeter is just not going to be fully healthy this season, and none of his understudies have shown anything that inspires confidence. A miss apiece by Marcello Diomede and Zac Yoakam today.
It’s not an issue today. At some point it might be.
One step closer
ND continues to be on a collision course with the playoff. In the long term, ND’s chances of hosting a CFP game are significantly aided by the committee presently having Notre Dame ahead of Alabama and Ole Miss, neither of which have any more opportunities for quality wins. (Bama and ND each had one of its quality wins devalued when Louisville and LSU [hehe] lost to inferior opponents today.)
Of course, there are two more steps remaining, as two teams with top 25 SP+ ratings – Army and, believe it or not, USC – are in between. Let’s hope we’re having some more fun the next two Saturdays.
I think the punt rule is as it is because it would be near impossible to define a line between juggled fair catch and a fumble still in the air. Therefore the ball needs to hit the ground. Today’s would certainly be over the line, if there were one.
Did Rubio play today? He’ll be needed next week.
Can we get a separate post deep dive full discussion into the fake punt flag? I honestly don’t know if the call was wrong or not, I would just like to have a full conversation around it with people that know way more than me about the call and how it was made and why.
That was a good play that Freeman clearly felt was legal and we burned it out of our playbook before the playoff. Announcers even said that Freeman probably cleared it with the refs before the game. I’m pretty pissed about it.
It seems pretty straightforward that it is not legal. The guy was lined up directly behind the center, so he was a quarterback and the punter was effectively a running back, and in that situation you need guys in the correct numbers on the line like a normal play. Why that doesn’t kick in on other fake punts is that the upback is not aligned directly behind the center/the snap goes somewhat sideways. That wasn’t the case for us, which in some ways could be viewed as a coaching screw-up on our end.
I think the issue is that they probably previewed it but the refs didn’t really understand when it was being described ahead of the game, and then when it happened in real time they were like “uh, that’s not legal” and Freeman was understandably mad because he thought he had gotten sign-off.
Actually, I just looked at the rulebook, and I think the above I just said is wrong (which means the replay ref, and all the refs at the game, are wrong).
In short, the numbering rule does not apply if the team is in a “scrimmage kick formation”, defined as follows:
“A scrimmage kick formation is a formation with no player in position to receive a hand-to-hand snap from between the snapper’s legs, and with either (1) at least one player 10 or more yards behind the neutral zone; or (2) a potential holder and potential kicker seven or more yards behind the neutral zone in position for a place kick. For either (1) or (2) to qualify as a scrimmage kick formation, it must be obvious that a kick will be attempted (A.R. 9-1-14-I-III)”
Since it wasn’t a direct snap (I don’t think), actually this was an arguably clever attempt to fit within the rule, so I rescind the coaching criticism above. But, giving the refs the benefit of the doubt that they knew the rule, they must have taken the view that it is not “obvious” that a kick will be attempted if there is somebody directly between the snapper and the punter, which seems like a reasonable interpretation.
Thanks, appreciate the conversation, I don’t think I was the only viewer that was super confused. Even though I feel like I know the rules to a reasonable extent. But didn’t understand that call and announcers didn’t seem to either, or at least not good enough to ELI5 to viewers.
I started typing my two above comments before you added your info so ignore my comments. This is fascinating. I’m just so interested in this call because it was such a turning point in the game, that in a closer game could have made the difference.
Fascinating. We need a whole thread on this. Either that or I should seek therapy. Or both. I do really think this is interesting though. Especially in light of Oregon loopholing the rules a couple weeks ago and everybody gargling Lanning’s balls for that.
Ahh, the rules of football.
“A scrimmage kick formation is a formation with no player in position to receive a hand-to-hand snap from between the snapper’s legs”
“Since it wasn’t a direct snap…”
It’s not a question of whether it was a direct snap, but if it could have been.” Was Price, or Faison for that matter, in a position to receive a direct snap.
So it boils down to it was just a numbers technicality thing? Everything else with the formation was fine?
I think the numbers technicality is to ensure teams can have enough blockers on punts. Totally unclear to me if we broke this rule, and either way, a major bummer to see that play reversed.
It’s the other way around – they except you from the rule so you’re not stuck with 5 O-linemen in kick coverage
I’ve become certain of 2 things at this point in the season:
1) Our defense, even missing 3 week 1 starters, is good enough to win a title
2) Our offense, though good enough to score lots of points against weak competition, is going to struggle mightily against many, if not all, playoff teams.
I hear you on the offense… but: it seems to me that Virginia was not going to let RL run wild. As in, they seemed to be keyed to prevent that. Which makes me wonder if that helped somehow open things up a bit for our RBs. In other words, maybe even some playoff teams might have trouble with our offense if RL is healthy.
i think you’re on it MN. While the offense didn’t execute consistently yesterday it was still a situation where Virginia had to choose who to try to stop. Even good defenses will have to make some of those tough choices…especially if it’s a game where Leonard is throwing well (and targeting Harrison, Faison, and Greathouse rather than no effort Collins).
I believe that punt rule came up early in the 2012 BCS title game, where ND recovered a muffed fair catch punt but refs ruled Bama ball. It was either still scoreless or 7-0 at the time so game was still theoretically in doubt. I remember being very irate about this and looked up the rule the next day when I was no longer blackout drunk.
Good call. I think they called kick catch interference and we all got big mad, but after hearing about the rule yesterday I’m sure that’s exactly what the call was actually for.
Yeah, IIRC after the catch was muffed but while the ball was still in the air, the gunners drilled the returner and someone else snagged the ball.
If I remember correctly, we had a third down pass ruled incomplete that was pretty close. Then bama muffed the punt, and the refs ruled against us again.
Obviously unlikely to change the outcome, but it was a clear message that neither luck nor officiating was going to save us.
So painful. In fact, that pass was right in front of where I was sitting. Bad call. And yeah, the punt muff. Very awful events. I still think we woulda beat K State!