It’s the return of the world famous Five Wide Fullbacks. The layout is simple. Five questions and five honest answers. Today, we’re focusing on the hog mollies. Is the recent transfer in from Marshall good enough, will the transfer market burn players in the end, updates on Jarrett Patterson, and more! Plus, are allowed to have good things at receiver anymore? Let’s find out…
1) A couple prominent media members covering Notre Dame have thrown some cold water on the transfer of offensive guard Cain Madden to Notre Dame citing his overrated status as an All-American in 2020 who also has some physical limitations and is coming from a much lower level of football at Marshall. Should we be concerned?
There’s something about the offensive line that remains steeped in a very traditional and old-school belief system about how players develop in college. No other position has really hung onto these principles over the last 25 years or so and this belief on how the offensive line pecking order should be arranged colors a lot of the comments on Madden.
We’re also not used to offensive linemen transferring into Notre Dame. Who was the last one? Up until a few years ago, Alex Bullard was the last OL to leave South Bend prior to his 5th year, too. In general, transfers and OL is pretty foreign for Notre Dame.
Still, we’ve been saying all off-season that guard was a weak spot that could and maybe should be addressed by the transfer portal. It’s quite possible that Cain Madden isn’t some game-changer for the offense or truly talented enough to be a consensus All-American in 2021. What I do know is that he made the team better, helps out at a weak area on the roster with poor depth and experience, and if this were any other position on the field you wouldn’t be seeing these comments about Madden.
2) The Madden transfer has also highlighted some concern that the transfer market is giving too much power to a coaching staff at the expense of younger players as they miss out on development for a year, or possibly longer. Will this hurt players over the long-term?
No, I don’t think so. It’s just the other side of the same coin of recruiting. I think there’s a fear that the transfer portal is getting out of control or is about to get worse. I can understand some of those worries although I think in the end it works out for most people. Sadly, there are a lot of players who aren’t very good who may leave a school to chase a dream elsewhere–and the new transfer rules make their life easier to move around–I’m just not sure how we can go about judging someone for transferring once or even twice, especially if they end up getting their degree when their career is over.
I specifically don’t see an issue with Madden coming to Notre Dame. The program lost Dillan Gibbons (who graduated) to Florida State apparently seeking more playing time and the Irish pick up Madden (who graduated from Marshall I presume) who now gets the opportunity to pick up graduate work at a terrific school.
Does it suck for someone like Rocco Spindler? Probably not! At the very worst, he just got over-recruited for one year meanwhile all of his dreams remain for a bright career at Notre Dame. And we don’t even know, Spindler could still end up starting at guard with Madden too. Or, maybe he truly is not ready and this is the best for his development. Like I said, Notre Dame made a decision to make the team better and it’s weird to criticize that move.
3) At a recent event, Brian Kelly mentioned that Jarrett Patterson’s best position is center. This runs counter to the belief that Patterson would certainly be playing tackle or guard in 2021. Where do you think Patterson will play this fall and what will the lineup look like across the entire line?
That’s potentially a throwaway comment from Kelly about Patterson (of course center would be his best position as that’s where he’s played during games) or maybe it’s a sign that things could really be shaken up going into fall camp.
Let’s entertain Patterson staying at center for a second. We’ve been penciling in Zeke Correll as one of the starters and there’s a school of thought that he’s not suitable at guard because he’s under-sized and not super powerful. So, would he head to the bench then? That could give us a lineup like this:
Fisher–Madden–Patterson–Spindler–Lugg
I struggle with keeping Correll on the bench as he could be a fine center while having Patterson play in that spot, and nowhere else on the line, seems to weaken the starting 5 overall (including possibly playing 2 true freshmen).
Thinking about all those OL combinations.Â
With Correll back at center I find things become a little more stable with a potential lineup like this:
Fisher–Patterson–Correll–Madden–Lugg
We were going into the off-season with a lot of question marks yet this line would have 65 career starts (Madden 32, Patterson 21, Lugg 8, Correll 4) and you’ve taken a true freshman out of a starting role. Right now, I expect this to be the lineup against Florida State.
Other possibilities, include:
Patterson–Madden–Correll–Lugg–Fisher
Fisher–Patterson–Correll–Madden–Baker
Fisher–Madden–Patterson–Spindler–Lugg
Fisher–Madden–Patterson–Lugg–Baker
Patterson–Spindler–Correll–Madden–Fisher
Patterson–Fisher–Correll–Madden–Lugg
For me, putting Patterson at left guard makes too much sense IF you feel comfortable with Blake Fisher’s progress to start at left tackle from day one. Patterson can help Fisher with protections to his left, help Correll to develop to his right, Madden can remain at his comfortable right guard spot, and Tosh Baker can push Lugg for reps at right tackle.
Even though I didn’t include anyone else (I didn’t want to list out a dozen more permutations) I’m not sure it’s exactly set in stone that Spindler is ahead of older options at guard.
4) The recent transfer of rising redshirt freshman Jay Brunelle drops the Irish down to just 9 receivers heading into next season. How much criticism should wide receivers coach Del Alexander be facing right now?
My boy DelVaughn is in a tough, tough spot right now. I think he’s ultimately doomed for 2 reasons:
1) He’s entering year 5 at Notre Dame so the benefit of the doubt left a long time ago. He’s also not a young pup anymore as he’ll be turning 50 next month. We can debate how much blame he should receive for all things at receiver right now but his track record at the position since he’s been with the Irish has been spotty at best. From what we know, he’s also not a superb recruiter or a personality that really jumps out to young people. Add it all up, what incentive is there to keep someone like this? You’d typically like a young, extremely relatable recruiter at this position and Alexander is kind of the opposite right now.
2) We’re one sore Kevin Austin foot away from this being a lock as the worst receiving corps of the Kelly era and it may not be close. There doesn’t seem to be anything right now in the Portal market that’ll make much of a difference either (except maybe Demetris Robertson!). There’s hope that Lawrence Keys is primed for a breakout season. So, now we’re hoping the small backup slot receiver becomes a difference maker? It’s a pretty bleak situation out there.
I don’t see how Alexander survives all of this but some big recruiting news this summer could at least take the spotlight off of him before fall camp begins.
5) Surely then, we will see someone emerge from the young receivers in 2021? Surely, we will!?? Who is the one wideout you believe can exceed expectations and make a difference maybe even as soon as the opener at Florida State?
It has to be Deion Colzie, right? I went back and re-visited my comments from our 2021 class review and here’s my blurb from his 87 grade (Tyler went for 89 and Brendan 91, FYI):
Nice long and lanky frame. He eats up space with his long stride and uses his body well maneuvering against smaller defensive backs. I think he will go through a process in college of re-shaping his body and adding a lot of muscle, especially in his upper-body. I see potential to be one of the best tall receivers in this class. However, he’ll need to work on his foot speed and agility with route running. I’m not sure I see a huge impact early in his career but more of a high floor receiver who will eventually use his physicality to become a productive receiver but his ceiling is a big question for me.
Colzie impressed everyone during track season and looks like he’s added a little bit of muscle as he just showed up on campus for summer workouts. Through necessity the team could really use his skill-set in 2021 but I also would admit he could be more of an instant impact than I believed in the later stages of 2020.
And really, we don’t need a 60-catch season for that impact to be important. A couple key sideline grabs against Florida State from 25 total catches on the year would be a big win for a young receiver.
A lot to unpack here. I think your second group at OL is about right, at least to start out. Players, coaches and fans are going to have to get use to this transfer thing. Looking out for #1 is going to be what we should expect from players and coaches. Loyalty, not so much.
A little recruiting good news, coming out of the weekend with Tobias Merriweather as he looks to be an ND lean now. I suspect Lorenzo Styles to be the freshman with the best chance to make some noise at WR. I’m hoping the Brunnelle transfer says more about the WR group than it does about him. Meaning, maybe they’re better than we expect rather than that, he’s just not good enough to cut it even with a mediocre group.
Can I also add that WR commit Amorion Walker recently ran a 4.41- 40 ? Now Bama wants in.
Hey Bama….
It would kinda be nice if Walker stopped going to places like that and Ole Miss and all….What’s the odds he actually signs with ND? Feels reaaal low, but hopefully they can hold on.
He’s clearly going to be shooting up the rankings. Does Bama ever sign anyone that is outside of the top 500 range? Walker is 825 right now.
The comments here are always so great on WR recruiting. People have been poormouthing the efforts for months, talking about how we’re going to have to do so much better than Walker. Now dude starts to get the buzz that ND’s earlier offer and accepted commitment might have foretold, and suddenly we won’t be able to keep him.
I wasn’t meaning a knock on the recruiting operation, I never mind adding a “diamond in the rough” type at any position, provided they are pushing hard for higher ranked players. Which they are with Merriweather and CJ Williams.
My thought was about a committed prospect still shopping around actively for other programs*. Especially when he’s coming from Louisana and an area where it always seems like there’s more drama and difficult to actually turn prospects into signed players (even with Diggs lately flirting with LSU).
*I get how that’s just kinda life in modern times, more just an aside about wondering how firm Walker’s verbal commitment may actually be more than saying anything about ND WR recruiting.
Usually ND wants kids to shut it down if they commit. Not so here I guess. I think I heard Bama offered as a DB. There were plenty that ignored both his coach and his film when complaining about his ranking, which was obviously off.
Great news on Walker and Merriweather. If we can finally just hit on a couple of WRs we don’t “need” all all-world QB.
Why not consider Patterson at RT? I have a vague memory of BK saying (maybe at the start of spring?) that he preferred Lugg inside rather than at tackle. Does anyone else remember this?
As for WR, I think that Del is likely on his way out after this year. Based on what I have read, perhaps Lorenzo Styles is going to be the young guy to step up — seems like he might be a guy who is ready to roll, maybe similar to TJ Jones.
Patterson at RT would definitely be one of the next set of lineups to consider. As for Lugg, I believe the case was we thought he fit better at guard, Kelly said no he fits better at tackle, then late in the spring said Lugg could work at guard, too.
In my brain, I must have E on an equivalent level as BK when it comes to solid sources for my ND info
Was it Kramer/Hainsey they used as a tandem and trade off some series at RT a few years ago? Or it might have been others even earlier. I’d like to see that with Lugg and Baker at RT.
Fisher-Patterson-Correll-Madden-Lugg/Baker
One interesting angle that the II guys talked about but I don’t think has been mentioned here yet was a quote from Kelly at his recent golf outing. I forget the exact words but it was the balancing act between what is best for the program vs. what is best for Patterson personally.
As in, Patterson was recruited at tackle, wants to play tackle. Yet for the team, the best fit for this year is Patterson as LG. Then again, Quenton Nelson wanted to play tackle too and moving inside worked out for him.
Kinda odd the best o-lineman won’t be in his natural spot (LT) or his spot with experience (C) but that’s a lot of the intrigue with fitting all the pieces of the puzzle together with Fisher standing out at LT and having what should be the center of the future in place with Correll.
It was definitely that he was a better fit at tackle – which is hopeful because he got overpowered at guard sometimes. Hopefully he can step up and be a key player but it’s hard to want to keep the guys with much higher upside on the bench.
Alternative question — if Dillon Gibbons doesn’t leave, is Notre Dame even looking for and able to accept another guard (Madden) in the first place?
If you’re a young player not much has changed in 4-5 months, beside the name. You thought in Jan/Feb that in 2021 you’d be behind Gibbons. Now you’re behind Madden.
There’s also a chef’s kiss of irony that FSU took Gibbons, which possibly/probably made Notre Dame step up it’s need/pursuit of Madden (with Madden being player that FSU wanted very badly as well).
Exactly. No, I don’t think we take a transfer if Gibbons is still here.
And seeing as Gibbons was only a possibility (but not likely) to make the starting lineup, taking a chance on Madden (who might earn a starting role) seems like an upgrade
https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Blue-chip-ratio-college-football-2021-16-teams-who-can-win-national-title-166530729/
Barely hangin’ on! Says something positive for the player development and coaching that Notre Dame is in the playoff mix a LOT more than a lot of their peers in the 53-60ish% range.
I feel like the Blue Chip ratio doesn’t apply to the current landscape. Given that the entire point is simply to tell you who could possibly win a title, it is pretty useless. Until things change (i.e. Saban retires, or dies of old age in the middle of the 2052 8th round of the playoffs), the OU-USC range has 0 chance.
I think the Blue Chip ratio is basically the level needed to even have a chance at winning a playoff game.
Also, crazy that FSU isn’t in that list. I would have though even in their recent struggles they’d easily still be recruiting over 50% blue chips.
With the top schools hoarding more and more of the elite players, I think the Blue Chip Ratio standard could probably be upgraded to 60% — the teams in column 2 might have a realistic shot at the playoff, but not the championship.
LSU was at 64% when they won the national championship in 2019.