WatchND highlights:
Would you like to know how many current Duke upperclassmen were ranked in the top 600 by the 247Sports composite rankings coming out of high school?
One.
Trevon Lee was ranked #431 coming out of high school. Trevon Lee has played 24 snaps for Duke, and none of them came today.
Less than half of the ND players in any given recruiting class rank below where Lee did.
Okay, recruiting rankings don’t tell the whole story. Well, how about the fact that Duke lost to Northwestern and Wake Forest the last two weeks, and scored 27 combined points while doing it?
ND gave up 498 yards to that same team, 38 points, 9.1 yards per pass attempt to a freshman backup quarterback, missed 2 billion tackles (est.), and just looked like a bad football team. Probably because they are one. (But hey, at least they finally recorded a sack.)
ND supposedly aspires to be a good football team. I can only assume they do, what with the face value of tickets now in the triple digits for most games, a $400 million renovation centered around the football stadium, and the fact that they pay seven digits to a defensive coordinator (yep, that one). Well, this is 5 of 7 seasons that have been outright failures if that’s your objective. I think it’s fair to say all of us would place 9-3 as the minimum benchmark for a successful season for a program that has the standards ND appears to. And this is 5 of 7 that will fall short of that. 2 of those fell two games short, which is a lot more than it seems.
I don’t think you can defend the Brian Kelly regime anymore. He had a great year in 2012, and a good year made more impressive by what he overcame to get there in 2015. But 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, and now 2016 have been bad. And this year looks like it will be the worst yet.
As ND alum and former SI writer George Dohrmann said on Twitter, referring to the train wreck that USC’s program looks like so far this year:
USC’s 3 losses have come vs far superior teams than ND’s. BK’s seat should be at least as hot as Helton’s + Helton has pass of being 1st yr
— George Dohrmann (@georgedohrmann) September 24, 2016
I just don’t think there’s any recourse left. ND is young. ND is inexperienced. And ND has been hit by some injuries yet again. But as the recruiting rankings above make clear, none of that excuses committing 3 turnovers, giving up 500 yards, and losing to a very bad Duke team.
I feel very bad for DeShone Kizer, who was far from perfect but was plenty good enough to win. (Kelly said postgame he was “well below standard” and even floated the idea of Brandon Wimbush playing, which seems ridiculous and grab-baggy to me.) I feel bad for guys like CJ Sanders, Josh Adams, Dexter Williams, and others that are clearly busting their humps out there. I feel bad that I hate the defense so much even though some of them are probably good football players trapped in a horrifyingly awful Groundhog Day of terrible schemes. I feel bad for the latest group of talented freshmen that came here thinking they would be getting, at least, a 2015-level team. I would feel bad for the currently #6 ranked recruiting class, except those guys can get out if they want. God, I don’t want them to. But are you looking at this? How could you blame them?
I have nothing more to add, really. I think I’ll be back next week. I hope I have something more interesting to say.
Well darnit.
Burn it all down.
Swarbrick has to be looking seriously into replacements, or he’s not doing his job. I just don’t understand how we could go from overcoming all those injuries last year to still win 10 games, two losses by 3 points total, and look like 2007 this year. I really do feel like it’s getting close to that bad. I was all for blaming BVG/defense, but the whole team looked like a tire fire today. That’s on Kelly
I’m gonna switch over to the Houston game and drool.
I wish we hadn’t renewed Kelly in the off season. Great opportunity to pick up a hot and rising coach
Ok so after last week people said that loss wouldn’t hurt recruiting that much, if at all. Now what? That was about as pathetic as it can be. Lost to duke at home. Lost. To. Duke. At. Home. Anyone going to be held accountable? Bvg is a lame duck if he even makes it to tomorrow. Gotta think Kelly’s seat is getting warm now.
A listless and strangely gutless performance, the like of which I thought we had left behind in the Kelly era absent ridiculously bad luck (rampant defensive injuries late 2014, etc). Kelly press conference disconcerting: Kizer had a terrible game, but he is far from being the problem. Meanwhile playing with passion is definitely a problem but requires belief in yourself/teammates/coaches, most of which redounds back to coaching. Not to mention fundamentals, which also should be laid at the coaches feet.
No good choices, but think you gotta fire BVG now even just to set a new tone – plus he is a dead man walking to current, potential future players. Kelly will have to get more involved on a micro-level which (maybe, hopefully?) will be a good thing.
Just a depressing set of circumstances all around…
slow-n-planar (the commenter formerly known as ‘fast-n-bulbous’)
As much as I don’t want to say it, I’m getting to the point of agreeing with you. But maybe I’m just being salty. I don’t know. They won’t fire him this year I don’t think. If Kizer stays I could see them being pretty good next year, obviously after firing bvg (hopefully as I’m typing this). Or not? I don’t even know what to think right now.
I hate knee-jerk reactions, but that press conference did nothing to make me feel good. Hell, even had he said nothing but coach-speak I’d have felt okay, as I could believe he’s just not being public and might be ripping people in private. But blaming the players for not having fire and Kizer for not playing well and saying he’s happy with the D? It makes no sense. He’s lost his mind. So yeah, if this continues I’m on board with a coaching search.
Josh Adams “I think that we don’t have enough guys that are passionate” (from Pete Sampson’s Twitter). Locker room issues?
I’m sorry, but that’s a BS excuse.
dont disagree with you.
Wait, that’s an actual key player on the team talking and you say it’s bs? Meaning he’s wrong?
I guess my agreement was that it’s not an excuse to lose to duke at home (in my opinion). However, I think it could point to a larger problem. I’m starting to worry that maybe Kelly is losing the locker room and team.
“not having passion” is a BS excuse, yes. I’m not saying he’s wrong, I’m saying it’s complete and utter BS that guys cannot get “passionate” about playing effing football for crying out loud. That’s literally the worst reason ever to not play well.
Yep, I totally agree. I never needed a coach to make me passionate and intensely competitive. Something’s wrong if you don’t have the fire naturally.
It’s 2009 all over again. The head coach is just less fat this time.
You’ve got a little foam there, on the side of your mouth.
Swarbrick needs to take an equivalent amount of money to the one we blew on that stupid campus crossroads project and throw it at Tom Herman, then pray he takes the job.
We just re-upped Kelly. We’re stuck with him for anot her couple of years. This year will be written off as due to the defense and Van Gorder, and the new DC will give Kelly another couple years, whether he succeeds or not
Should have been rooting for LSU. With their loss to Auburn, Miles is probably a dead man walking. IF we were to get rid of Kelly (yes yes, renewed contract….whatever) we wouldn’t outbid LSU, nor would Herman consider us an easier place to win. It’s be 2004 and losing Urban Meyer to Florida all over again.
The bigger issue I think is that in 2004 we were in a good position to be searching for a new coach, whereas now we arent
If Kelly needs to go, doesn’t Jack as well?
Uh…no? Not in the slightest? Football may be the most visible and important sport at ND, but it’s far from the only one, nor is it anywhere near the point that Jack deserves the heat for it. Kelly’s getting the heat now because he didn’t get rid of BVG when it was obviously needed, and now we’re paying for it. If Swarbrick lets this continue without either forcing Kelly to dump BVG or without dumping Kelly if he refuses, then we can talk about Jack. But given all else Jack’s done for ND, that’s a really inaccurate statement.
He signed him to a five year extension that hasn’t even begun yet. He charged me $150 to watch that sh*tshow last week. We are spending $450mm on this stadium expansion and we won’t be able to fill the f*cking seats. So, yeah. Maybe there is some f*cking culpability.
Cool. You’re right. While we’re at it, let’s oust Jenkins. Oh, and fire Marge in South Dining Hall too, she’s the worst.
Wait, Marge is still there!?
I know, right? Won’t fix any problems unless she gets the heave ho!
i admit she was very young when I saw her last, but that was in the 60’s
She….did not age well.
Doesn’t Kelly realize that not executing at some point is on the coaches for not coaching well enough?????
This feels like Weis in the middle of 2008. They’re going to be hanging onto a slim hope that this thing turns around so they don’t have to fire him given the contract. It won’t. So now we’re going to have two sad years just playing out the string.
The quotes from the press conference are borderline unforgivable. If the team quits on him, I don’t blame them.
I agree it feels like Weis because the offense is pretty decent and the defense is horrible. On the other hand, the major difference is that we have far more talent than Weis ever was able to bring in.
The NDNation comments in response to Kelly’s press conference: tough but fair.
http://www.ndnation.com/boards/showpost.php?b=football;pid=138974;d=this
(Very NSFW)
Definitely low-blow with the “definite possibility” that Wimbush might play this year. That’s crazy talk. I know Malik had that awful “sack” and they won’t run that again. Fine. But while Kizer was below HIS standard, he’s still easily the best QB on the roster. Does Kelly really think Wimbush is going to not make mistakes? To give Kelly the benefit of the doubt – it may have been a comment he regrets making if he made it out of anger and frustration (not like none of us have ever said anything stupid when frustrated/angry before).
Anything to shift the blame from coaching, apparently
He made a lot of intemperate remarks that drove Golson away. The look on Kizer’s face when Kelly was at him on the sidelines was very Golson-like. If Malik has a shot at the draft, these comments won’t help.
or maybe Kelly was trying to motivate him. Lousy approach IMO.
If we don’t stop turning the ball over and giving up special teams TD’s we may be hard pressed to win 6 games. I mean the way we are playing every game left on our schedule is losable. On the flip side perhaps besides Stanford, any game is winnable with Kizer a little sharper and no TO’s/special teams TD. That means 1-3 could turn into probably as bad as Weis 3-9 or into 7-5. But think about that 7-5 is basically as good as we can do now.
On a positive note: Kizer’s coming back next year. No way he leaves after a 7-5 campaign – only because it means he wasn’t that great.
And has BVG been fired yet?
I don’t know. We went 6-6 with Clausen going 28 TD/4 INT for the season. I don’t think it’s at all unlikely that Kizer could play like a 1st rounder and we could still suck.
Stanford just Stanford’d UCLA–score on a TD pass with 24 seconds left after marching down the field with 2 min, then scored on a sack/strip/fumble on the last play to make it a bigger margin.
Well…that sucked.
I was at the game.
I didn’t expect us to be a playoff caliber team. I knew our defense would struggle with losing basically all of our good players to the draft/SBPD.
BUT MY GOD! I don’t know if ive ever seen such a piss poor Notre same defensive performance as bad as what I watched today.
I could see it from across the stadium that this defense has no confidence or leadership.
Which results in no grit, no fire and no shot at looking even remotely respectable.
This is the first time I’ve ever really lost faith in Brian Kelly. At first I liked his post game comments about the players needing to play with fire. There was even a play early in the fourth where our blitz was called perfect for the play Duke was running and we took bad angles and missed three tackles. So I can at least give the coaches some credit.
The team looked like the walking dead. No excitement, no energy. So I can see BKs point. But when he said “coaching had nothing to do with this loss” I about threw up in my mouth.
I am going to try to enjoy the rest of this season and not let it ruin my weekends. Hopefully some leaders on the team step up because I think this coaching staff has lost the ears of the players
It’s fine. Kelly is just going to blame the quarterback like he always does. It’s honestly shocking that Kizer is playing as well as he is, because BK has never successfully developed a ND quarterback over successive seasons. Because he’s a garbage coach. If that’s not goddamn clear.
Also saw a vomit-inducing stat.
Who had/has a better record against ranked teams as NDs coach: Brian Kelly or Tyrone Willingham?
I can’t even type the answer without dry-heaving
Whoa, that’s radioactive-bad. Hard to believe, but I believe you. its clear that Kelly and his entire staff has been badly out coached in each of our losses this year. BVG is not saveable, although I have to say that he’s got freshmen all over the secondary, plus others that just aren’t very good back there (Tranquil, Coleman, Sebastion). Cole Luke had another bad game, to the point where the announcers actually referred to him as “supposedly the best DB for Notre Dame”. And the dline has holes too. Politically he’s unsaveable, like company CEO’s sometimes become. I think someone will have to force Kelly to pull the trigger on him, though, since Kelly doesn’t seem to blame him. Regarding the recruitment ranking argument, I still think it’s non-determinant often. The straw man that Duke’s highest ranked recruit is so much worse than our guys is a non-sequitur to me. Their guy Ballard was the best DB by far on the field and will play on Sunday’s. He holds the NCAA lead for INT’s for active players (tied, with 12 per the announcers). Their QB was a walk on, awarded a scholly, but he played really well, showing the effect of the development by Cutcliff. There was one play in particular that sticks in my mind, where Onwualu hits him 4 yards short of the first down and the kid, standing straight up from Onwualu ‘s hit, just bulled our guy backward to get the first down on an important play. That’s not BVG or Kelly’s fault, that’s just flat out player to player execution, and we had a lot of those type plays today. Sure, let’s say a lot of this is coaching, but damn, highly competitive athletes who want to win and have pride, especially at home, shouldn’t be muffing tackles, no matter who the coach is they are playing for. I mean that last sentence not specific to the Onwualu play, but to the plethora of missed tackles by guys who are supposed to be great athletes. There was another play where the Duke RB ran through our middle for 10 or so yards and there was a string of ND players lying on the ground like bowling pins, all of whom had a hand on him and he ran through their tackles. They were lined up one beyond the other, all three levels of the defense. Special teams has had big mistakes, shouldn’t we be calling for that guy’s head too? I think the entire coaching staff is suspect at this point, notwithstanding lousy player execution. I didn’t watch the game live. Silly me, I thought it would be too boring so I agreed to take a day trip with my wife. I watched the recording not knowing who had won ( and sans commercials!). It was a very entertaining game to watch, a cliff hanger. So I was entertained. I didn’t get angry, because I had already concluded we have too much going against us… Read more »
Stop being a willfully stupid dildo. Our players are without a doubt more talented than whatever the hell Duke has, and honestly more than most teams in country. You’re a goddamn idiot if you refuse to agknowledege that. BVG just cannot coach defense. For example, Harrison Smith is a pro bow safety. He was awful playing under Weis. We have talent, but we lack the coaching staff to take advantage of that.
One of the things I’ve always loved about this community is the respect given to one another even when we don’t all see eye to eye.
Your comment makes me sad.
Either calling another poster a dildo and an idiot doesnt belong here, or I don’t.
Yeah, I was out of line. Sorry for that, Kiwi. As you can tell by the time stamp on that comment, it was pretty far into a Saturday night after a loss, to give a frame of reference. Won’t happen again.
Geaddas, I agree with you. That said, it seems to always be the same guy that brings out the worst in the commenters. He has a way of getting under people’s skin. Publius is not the first to snap.
It is silly to suggest that Duke has a more talented roster than ND. That said, he should not have been called a Dildo or an idiot.
Right. Note I said nothing of the original opinion posted.
Was just shocked at the name calling. It’s really big of Pub to respond so quickly with an apology.
Thanks for that, Pub.
No worries, Ublius, apology accepted.
tindma, I never said that Duke has more talented players. I said that they have some talented players and good coaching. If I get under your skin you might want to think about how you react to contrary opinions. Not being able to handle dissenting opinions isn’t a plus.
I mean Publius. Dang typos.
You don’t get under my skin. I know how you operate here. I’ve seen it time and again…..Like I said, “It’s always the same guy”. Yes, that would be you.
Thanks for your advice on self reflection. As you are the poster that keeps setting people off, might I suggest the same.
Thank you Geaddas, much appreciated.
Is there any rational case for keeping BVG till the end of the season? I know mid-season firings can be messy, but it’s hard to see how anything can be worse than losing to Duke at home.
As for Kelly, his seat is warming. What frustrates me the most is that he kept BVG when he should have known more than anyone that BVG wasn’t cutting it. The cratering fundamentals should have been seen in practice long before they became this obvious to the rest of us.
Let’s get some perspective. Kelly gets a pass on not going 9-3 in 2010 and 2011 because thre program was in rebuilding mode.
By 2012 the program was in better shape than it had been since Davie took over.
All problems since then have been defensive, and unlike Weis, Kelly has proven that he can field a competent defense at Notre Dame.
This team’s problems do nor call for a a reset on the program, YET.
What this team’s problems DO call for is a reset on the defense. As the manager of the program, especially as one known as a CEO type, Kelly’s role in this is to make the management decision necessary to fix the defense: fire BVG. Sooner, not later. Kelly’s job becomes on the line if he proves incapable of doing this.
Newsflash: I don’t know if we’re going to win two more games this season.
BVG needs to be fired during the bye week. If he’s not, Kelly needs to be fired.
Agreed.
This fast enough for you? 🙂
First of all, jchrapek, welcome on board. It is lots of fun (and must be extremely reassuring and fun for Eric and Brendan) to have more of the old OFD gang trickle back in, like paratroopers assembling after a night drop (KG, apologies for thinking you ever had anything to do with the Navy…) This seems especially important as we seem shockingly to be facing the possibility of a 2007-like meltdown. Being maybe the only one of us who remembers all the other meltdowns like that (’56, ’60, ’63) the one thing that can make this year even halfway tolerable is to spend it with folks like are on this site, who love Notre Dame and our f-ball tean, and who can maintain civility and perspective and a sense of humor. (Btw, along those lines I don’t think Kiwifan deserved to be called a goddamn idiot, just sayin’) The defense looked horrible even when seen in The Great Canadian Club along the Seine, where unfortunately the Notre Dame Club of Paris invited the Duke alums hoping to get payback for that 30 point b-ball loss which we watched together. Need to stop inviting the Dookies, but I digress, A few quick hitters: 1. I took BK’s presser (which I rewatched with care) as him in fact losing it to some extent, and some of his underlying tendencies coming out, as often happens when folks are under great stress. Yes, the line about “not the coaches fault” was bad and refelcts his fundamental tendency to make excuses – but towards the end, look again, he signs up loud and clear to coaching being also responsible. 2. Calling out the players – I agree he will regret some of that, but they were lackluster for sure, to be polite. And coaches can only do so much in that regard. As Lou Holtz always said, much rests on the shoulders of the senior leadership and there seem to be real problems with that this year. I wonder if the Max Redfield affair wasn’t somehow a part of that? 3. Speaking of Lou, does anyone remember how he addressed that issue of keeping a non-conference team motivated for less than a Natty? He would establish several ascending goals with the team, the first being not to have a losing season, then to go to a bowl, then to go to a NY’s Bowl, then… you get the idea. Saying THE goal is only to get into the Playoffs may have contributed to this week’s meltdown. 4. I think he (unjustly and foolishly) called out DeShone because in BK’s heart and soul, QBs are his very favorite position. 5. Will he lose the team? I think he already has. Which is why I think we need to buckle up for the probability of another 2007. The issue when movong through a debacle is how you handle it. His presser is not a good sign, but, mon Dieu, mes amis (et oui Brendan, ton francais est… Read more »
Great post, Noise. I think Kelly spoke from the heart, but, as he’s done in the past, spoke publicly and before he had cooled off. The criticism of Zaire was especially cutting, and can be done privately but not publicly, same with the Kizer comments, at least some of them. I have a hard time thinking either will have much “love” or trust for Kelly. That’s clearly what happened with Golson, IMO.
His comment about this being work for the players, not fun, and playing through gritted teeth was interesting. Cutclffe was quoted many times as telling his team to go have fun. I think playing for a hyper-critical guy like Kelly can’t be fun, and possibly the student load these players have must be a distraction as well. Clearly the Duke guys played more loosely and with more overt desire and passion. But I think the Duke guys go to real classes too, so who knows.
Thanks, Kiwifan. Think you are 100% right on Malik, DeShone, even EG. Public criticism really needs to be metered with great care. Especially poor Malik right now. And this is no way to keep his head (and heart) in the game. Which leads right in to your point about not so much fun for the players. And it is a game after all…Let’s bring back Trick Shot Monday…
Rec’d for the paratrooper reference.
Big fan of the work previously done over at OFD (for 2 seasons I think), first time poster here. I’m also glad the band’s getting back together over here. Anyways…
In regards to your goals that the program should set for itself, that sounds awfully like an argument for the team to join the ACC. I know that’s not what you are arguing for but I’m curious if you think that could help in that area as well.
Thanks for the rec, my first ever. Being across the ocean tends to minimize my post.
Glad you like many of us have found the new site.
No, actually I am anti-conference. The point of the reference to Lo’s hierarchy of goals was more to show that one can fashion intermediate goals for an independent football program without being in a conference.
I mostly curious how Kelly, as well as his predecessors, set goals for the team. I feel like the traditional wisdom among coaches these days is always, “one game at a time.” I didn’t watch Showtime last year though so I could be missing something.
Which ocean?
Sorry for the typos above. Too much liquid at the Great Canadian Club…
Maple syrup will do that to a person.
Especially when you mix it with gin and tonic water and egg whites (the famous Silver Gin Fizz, courtesy Alumni Hall c. my dad’s era, and well made by the bartender last night after a bit of coaching up).
Maybe we can inspire an 18 Stripes feature on beverages like we used to do on OFD
Kelly just fired BVG.
http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/092516aad.html
Hmm, that should let the puss out of the wound, so to speak. We’ll soon see if anything changes.
Hopefully it does, but I’m doubtful, I must say.
Greg Hudson was fired by Purdue, so I’m guessing he’s only interim.
Do you think he’ll make any assistant coach changes, e.g. Lyght?
No idea
Looks like he did OK at FSU; it will be interesting to see what bubbles up on all of that from journalist research and what then happened at Purdue. True enough his numbers went down there each of the three years.
It’s funny but we could all see pretty clearly when he got hired that BVG was on a sort of downward slope (and one could intuit) one getting less connected with modern college football.
Anyway, one never knows until one tries, so here’s hoping the best for our new DC.
Also, the stories are out that BK’s hand was forced by Jack S. I would hope that’s not true but even if not, it’s interesting that that version would get out so quickly.
Purdue is a really bad program. I have heard in the past that they pay their staff the least in the entire Big 10. I’m not sure it’s fair to judge him based off of that performance.
“ND ranked 103rd in total defense, 101st in scoring defense, 111th in pass-efficiency defense, T-114th in team tackles for loss and T-126th in team sacks.” – 247sports.com
It actually can’t get much worse than that. They are also 96th in rush defense as well.
Sure he did! Thanks for the news flash.
Always like a post with a good source.