Welcome back to America’s greatest question and answer segment Five Wide Fullbacks. This week we’ll tackle those silly kids opting out of bowl games, plus the possible return of a curmudgeon-y assistant coach, Marcus Freeman’s sense of style, a trade-off at wide receiver, and breaking NCAA passing records.
1) More and more players are deciding to opt-out of bowl games. Will this eventually become a normal annual occurrence that becomes expected and accepted or will it drive problems and changes throughout the sport?
I do feel a bit hypocritical about this, myself. Take for instance the loss of Kyren Williams for the bowl game. It took me a good 10 to 12 hours to get over the sting of losing him for what I consider to be a really big and important game. For fans, it does suck. That’s okay, right? We want Notre Dame to win and losing such a key player damaged those winning odds.
It is made worse when we get these surprise decisions. There was some small talk about Kyren maybe skipping the bowl game but there was a lot more talk emerging by late November about him coming back in 2022. So when the rug is pulled out, so to speak, it hurts. Plus, suddenly we don’t get to see Kyren in an Irish uniform ever again.
On the other hand, no one has championed the uselessness and absurdity of bowl games more than me.
There are too many bowl games, they were becoming more and more devalued, and the playoff just made things worse. I think there’s a fear that in the future these non-playoff NY6 games would feature 6 or 7 Notre Dame players sitting out but this seems super unlikely under any context. I do think we’re headed toward that future with the non-NY6 bowl games, though. Hence, why we will soon see an expanded 12-team playoff in the sport.
2) According to reports, Notre Dame is interested in bringing back former offensive line coach Harry Hiestand but is also highly pursuing current UCLA offensive line coach Justin Frye, as well. If it comes down to these two which is your pick?
For me, the only reason to bring Harry Hiestand back is if it’s the guy Tommy Rees absolutely wants to work with and Freeman is okay signing off with some of Hiestand’s issues that surrounded his first tenure at Notre Dame.
If we’re only looking at these two candidates I would pick Frye, though. His resume has been really good in recent years, he’s 25 years younger than Hiestand, and in general I’d prefer the vibe of fresh blood under Freeman when we’re already retaining a lot of assistants from the Kelly era. Adding Hiestand kind of feels like a stop-gap and putting off hiring someone else for a year or two.
Frye has already embraced the mustard gold so…
Although offensive line recruits itself at Notre Dame, as Hiestand can attest, I think it’s important to bring in an assistant that can help out in their region with more than just offensive linemen. Hiestand has always struck me as the type of recruiter who would roll up to a home with some other Irish assistants and wait in the car until they’re done. We don’t need that around anymore.
3) With a new coaching regime for the first time in 12 years comes the possibility of Notre Dame football making changes to their uniforms. If you have Freeman’s ear what tweaks would you recommend?
I have 3 ideas in increasingly more bold order:
#1 Okay, yeah just make some small tweaks. Anything, really. The uniforms haven’t changed in forever and Notre Dame has a long history of a new coach putting their stamp on the look of the team at least in some small way to differentiate from the previous era. Bring the dome back at the collar? TV numbers again? Perhaps a shamrock somewhere?
#2 Brian Kelly got the program into this mindset that the standard uniforms never change but we’ll wear an alternate once a year away from home. Well, let’s keep the home uniform alone and go big with a road uniform change. How about a crispy all-white uniform like the basketball teams wear?
Remember our concept from a few years ago?
#3 Let’s go for a full change to green, do it Marcus. I’m actually fascinated to know if Freeman really was adamant about going back to a 1970’s or 1950’s green look would the school okay it for 2022? Every team on campus has a green uniform anyway. The marketing part of my brain makes me wonder if this is something Freeman really wanted if the school would wait to roll out an athletics-wide switch to green and not just football. That would be amazing.
4) Western Kentucky’s Bailey Zappe just broke the NCAA single-season records with 5,977 passing yards and 62 passing touchdowns. He’s now the 19th player to throw for at least 5,000 yards in a season. Will we ever see 7,000 yards in a season?
I think we can get there at some point in the not too distant future, especially with an expanded playoff. Zappe played in their league title game and a bowl game to get him 14 games at 426.2 yards per contest. With the rumored 12-team playoff we could see a maximum of 17 games played. Do the math and it would take a quarterback averaging 412 yards per game while playing in their conference title game, first round of the playoffs, and eventually make it to the National Championship Game.
A Power 5 team throwing this much AND making it all the way to the title game does seem unrealistic, although who knows how much more the game will keep tilting towards passing in the future? Here are the Power 5 quarterbacks to average at least 400 yards per game through the air in recent years:
2021, Brennan Armstrong, Virginia, 404.5
2019, Anthony Gordon, Washington State, 429.2
2016, Patrick Mahomes, Texas Tech, 421.0
2014, Connor Halliday, Washington State, 430.3
That’s it. That’s the list. These teams went 21-29 overall and in the case of Armstrong had he been healthy enough to face Notre Dame he might be below 400 yards per game, and maybe dips below that number after their bowl game anyway.
The thing is you have to be on a team that throws a lot and plays in a ton of competitive games which you end up winning. The 400 per game mark isn’t happening at modern-day Alabama when the margin of victory is 20 points per game and you’re barely throwing in most 4th quarters.
Still, with the right mix I can think someone can do it.
5) Which scenario do you prefer? Kevin Austin transfers out of Notre Dame but all other wideouts remain on the roster or Austin stays and Braden Lenzy, Avery Davis, and Joe Wilkins all leave?
This is tough! I’m inclined to take Austin as the perceived No. 1 receiver especially as Davis and Wilkins are coming off serious injuries and we don’t know what their status will be or how they’ll bounce back this off-season. When in doubt it’s smart to take the best player available.
Doing so in this scenario really makes the numbers at receiver scary, with just 5 scholarships heading into the 2022 season! Notre Dame would almost be forced to add at least 4 receivers from the Transfer Portal if something like this occurred. I’m not sure that would even be possible.
As far as #1, I’m on board the O’Malley “conspiracy theory” that Kelly put Kyren back into the Stanford game for the last drive and fed him the ball to get him to 1,000 yards. I didn’t sense consciously it at the time, but it made and makes sense that maybe everyone knew that was going to be it for Kyren. I don’t really have much sadness on the opt out, Diggs and a healthy Tyree can handle the work.
#3 would be OK with me, maybe add some blue (or green!) striping or piping in there to balance it out and add the color. I would love to see some new jersey for the bowl game, don’t love the script on the helmet though, too busy and unnecessary for my tastes.
#5: give me Austin. The #5-8 WR’s at ND usually aren’t asked for much and 2021 was a worst case scenario for injuries. In a hot take, I think I’d pick Austin over even Patterson and Foskey as the one player ND needs to re-recruit back the most.
Austin, Styles, a transfer player as starters..Colzie, Merriweather, Thomas as backups that will all get plenty of playing time. Salerno probably in the mix for snaps, which whatever, and probably another transfer for a warm body too.
Not great, but I’d take quality over quantity all day. (And besides, it’s not like Mayer won’t get another 70+ catches next season)…If Raridon is as good as hoped, he’ll see the field some and the TE group in general has a lot Baumann, Evans and Berrong in the mix, meaning they won’t need to feature many WRs.
Further, I think they could/should build on the 2RB sets and basically have Tyree motioning out as a pseudo-slot WR/RB hybrid weapon, who can more or less replace the Lenzy role of putting speed on the field to open up defenses or at least give the threat to do so.
Raridon tore his ACL a few days ago while playing basketball so he probably won’t see the field next year. However we have other quality TEs and I’m all in favor of more 2 RB sets especially with Estime looking like he’ll be ready to contribute next year.
Oh wow, I didn’t see that about Raridon yet, terrible blow there. Agree about Estime being a contributor next year, but I’m really intrigued by J.D Price. I think he can be Diggs+ as a freshman next year, if given the opportunity. Should be four great RBs in the room and a lot of fun to hopefully figure out how to incorporate all of their talents.
Absolutely agree on Price having an incredible ceiling. Just don’t expect him to be ready to go until maybe game 4 or 5, just because of blitz pickup. Is he an early enrollee?
Price is indeed an early enrollee according to 247
Well since he is an early enrollee then perhaps he could be ready for a limited role by the start of the year.
Leave the unis alone. This is an obsession you have Eric. Seek counseling.
The bowl games are for the players–they get swag, great restaurant experiences, a mostly vacation in a location they may never have been to, playing a team they probably have never played, and a chance to play with their teammates one more time. The seniors who know they aren’t going to the league will be the losers if bowls are eliminated.
Expanding the playoffs is stupid. Talk about meaningless games! We don’t really get 4 competitive teams in the playoffs most years as it is, so expanding them to more teams will just mean more blowout, boring games. And we’ll then see opt outs in the playoffs start happening. And it will have no effect on the elites continuing to dominate.
Thus far Saban has been able to take advantage of every rule change, after warning that they are bad ideas (early signing, NIL, portal).
Wut? Who the hell wouldn’t be on board with this concept?
A 12-team playoff would rule for CFB and incorporate a lot more importance to the post-season.
From the specific ND perspective, they probably get a 4/5 rematch with Cincy and the chance to avenge the loss. This would be an absolute dream to have. and is a million times better than the current NY6 format. I also disagree completely and would bet all of the players who opted out (Pickett, Walker, Kyren and Kyle, etc) would be playing with the chance of a national title on the line, just as no one in the four team playoff ever opts out.
I don’t think under the current 12 team proposal (I could be wrong here) that Alabama and Georgia could both get byes. I think that only conference champions are allowed to get a bye but otherwise I agree with the sentiment that the 12 team set up is much preferred.
Exactly. The 12 team playoff will be a necessity to get competitive “bowl” games (to keep all the typical opt-outs from actually opting out). And will result in a lot more competitive games because it won’t just be the absolute elite teams (1-2/3) playing someone else.
I actually wonder if Pickett/Walker opt-outs will hurry the process along to get expanded playoffs going with teams feeling the urgency to keep post-season play meaningful.
Realistically which of those teams below the top 3-4 (usually only top 2-3) actually have a chance to win in any given year? This year I don’t see Cinci having any chance to win–I’d rather see OSU or Ole Miss as #4. They have the talent to at least make a showing of it, and I’d rather watch their talent level than any of the others below this year’s top 3.
Not ND as we’d get smashed again, and I’m tired of that.
In this format, the top teams, with byes, get to watch the lesser teams beat each other up for the privilege of getting crushed by the elites. Sooner or later players on these also ran teams who declare for the draft will see the handwriting on the wall and opt out. Opting out is a very new thing in the last decade or less, and now its mushroomed to most of the true stars sitting out bowls. Jalon Smith’s injury opened the floodgates.
Win what, though?
Your theory that people are bored of the same few teams dominating and aren’t watching or “caring” doesn’t seem to be backed up by anything but the opinion of a tiny minority.
Furthermore, non-playoff NY6 bowls are a guarantee to not win the National Championship so why would that absolute lock of never winning be preferred? Here are the last few Fiesta Bowls, can you spot the playoff game?
Fiesta Bowl Viewership
2020 – 6.7 million
2019 – 21.2 million
2018 – 8.5 million
Even the Rose Bowl last year–which I believe was the largest spread in playoff history–in an expected comfortable Alabama win there were 18.9 million viewers. That was 10.1 million more than any other 2020 non-playoff bowl game, 9 million more than the ND vs. Clemson ACC Championship, and 8.9 million more than the first ND vs. Clemson regular season game which was the most viewed game prior to the post-season.
People love and will watch all varieties of playoff games.
Damn right I’m passionate and care about uniforms. Your constant barbs about it are lame and immature. Grow up.
Peace brothers. It’s Noel.
Kiwi, Eric has displayed much talent and passion for uniforms, and though not something I ever thought too much about, he has educated me, though sometimes the subtleties are beyond my ken. But as military guys, we do know uniforms have meaning.
Eric, as Muddy Waters liked to sing, Kiwi’s a man, way past 21. He’s just teasing you. As for me… I could live with going back to green all the time, but that was a long time ago. On the other side of the ledger, Blue has become an icon, and it’s in our Alma Mater, which actually most of the players seem to be able to sing…
Merry Christmas!
You as well, Eric, Joyeux Noel, and your family — and all of your 18 Stripes staff and family, and heck, all of you who post and your families!
Yeah, I do like to tease him on the unis, but I’m serious about not changing them. They’re iconic as is. I can glance at the tv as I pass by one in a bar, and instantly know its ND playing, whether home or away.
Oregon changes its unis virtually every game, and I can instantly tell its Oregon because they look like lemon or lime clown suits most of the time.
As for green, whenever was Our Lady shown to be wearing green?
According to the Bible, Mary rocked the heck out of green and gold.
I’ve never seen that. Which bible? I’m curious.
He’s joking, there’s no reference to her in green (not that she’d have never worn the color) and the traditional Marian colors are blue and white. Even under the title of Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal she’s usually in blue instead of green like that font
Little-known fact: our team nickname is actually the Fighting Irish. Green also happens to be the color most commonly associated with the heritage.
“The More You Know” or some shit.
The name of the university is “ Our Lady” , done in French. She’s always shown in blue, and there is nothing Irish in our heritage.
Go figure.
I really don’t get the leprechaun, it’s kind of embarrassing to the Irish , at least as much as all the supposedly Indian names.
On the other hand, I totally don’t get why Bama’s mascot is an elephant.
There are tens of thousands of Irish-American alumni and current students at Notre Dame. There have been 12 school presidents with Irish heritage. Our local alumni club and game bar in Buffalo, NY might as well be based in Dublin with all of the Irish people involved. Those early Rockne teams were packed with Irish players, hence the adopted nickname.
You’re so freaking weird.
If I risk being pedantic, both perspectives have much to offer. Besides its very name, Notre Dame’s spirituality, architecture, and residential hall-centric culture, all owe very much indeed to its French origins, to France in effect. The beginning of Father Blantz’s epic history of the University lays that out in great detail.
At the same time, Eric’s points are all valid and point to the evolution of what started (and still resembles) a French boarding school. It’s true that during my two weeks in Ireland for both our Navy games there I looked in vain for any significant indications that the Irish themselves “get it” — but we as Americans reflecting the rich heritage of Irish (and many other nationalities) Catholic immigrants definitely get it.
So — both of you are right, lads — and wearing green is OK as well as wearing blue (as long as they get the gold right!)
My personal vote is blue with an occasional green sprinkled in…. (but I was never very original.
When I was still nurturing the idea of getting the Stadium fans in a single color, I came around to Gold. For all the above reasons. But we’ll stay M&Ms forever, of that I’m sure!
Maybe due to this incredibly rich history kiwi would be open to a tricolour uniform?
May be… but would your own acute sense (and good taste) in colors even allow the green-blue clash proposition ??
…something something Emerald
…something something Isle
I know players have taken out an insurance policy in case they get injured in a bowl game. Is there a reason someone like Kyren couldn’t do that?
I think they could but I don’t think insurance would really cover the loss of value. I always thought someone might get a few million from insurance if they get injured but they might have lost 10s of millions in career earnings.
Yes, the cost of a career’s worth of insurance would be prohibitive.
Policies usually cover the cost of rookie contract differences, like falling from the 1st to the 2nd or 3rd, or 3rd to late/undrafted, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone trying to insure past the rookie scale.
In the FWIW category, a few years ago Jake Butt was expected to be a high 2nd round pick, tore his ACL in the Orange Bowl and ended up getting drafted in the 5th round. Even after insurance, he reportedly lost a total of $2.8 million in the difference. (And then had further knee injuries and didn’t have the pro career he might have otherwise had, which compounds the matter even further).
https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/858388278835388416
Butt also confirmed recently that while he was insured, it did not truly make him whole.
https://theathletic.com/3023373/2021/12/21/im-f-ing-playing-michigans-jake-butt-on-the-bowl-decision-that-changed-his-life/
Bottom line, especially for a RB like the original ask, I’m not in insurance but I’m betting the algorithms and numbers wouldn’t make sense for a company to take on that risk for one game at a reasonable cost. And the policy wouldn’t make complete sense for the player either, given situations like Butt and Jaylon Smith where a significant injury risks derailing a future career path.
What are the coaching prohibition on analysts? Could they hire both Frye as the official coach and pay Heistand a boatload to be some sort of hands-on super analyst/guru who doesn’t have to do the dirty work of recruiting? My understanding is Heistand lives in South Bend so maybe that’s not totally implausible and could work for all involved.
On the WRs, it’s a good hypo but I think the right answer is Austin. If you told me for sure that Davis was fully healed it’s a lot harder. But ultimately Austin is the only one on that list who could potentially be an all-American, and this program is in bad need of show that they can showcase a wideout.
I always thought players had to be available to play to fulfill their scholarship requirements until just after Jaylon got hurt. What are the requirements? Is the NCAA thinking about changing them?
1) The semester is over. Pulling a player’s scholarship now would do nothing, since the players opting out aren’t planning to stick around for Spring Semester.
2) It would probably be a bad look for a school that first and foremost prides itself on being first a strong Academic Institution to pull a player’s scholarship. I would imagine there’s no way ND would do that, especially with the way they pitch recruits on the off the field benefits of coming to ND.
3) Even players like Lawrence Keys, who stepped away from the team in the middle of the season, have been allowed to keep their scholarships. Yes, technically the school would probably be allowed to pull the scholarship. But I just can’t picture ND ever actually doing that.
“Hiestand has always struck me as the type of recruiter who would roll up to a home with some other Irish assistants and wait in the car until they’re done. We don’t need that around anymore.”
Did he actually do this or are we just kind of making it up? But yes i agree, new Oline coach blood would be cool and the UCLA guy seems legit.
I dont see why Austin wouldn’t come back.
Sitting out bowl games is interesting. On one hand, hell yea, do what makes you happy. People need to be more selfish sometimes (in a good way. But I always think, if a player were to sit out, why not sit out the last game of the reg season? how about the last two games? I mean once ND lost the Cincy game, they were not technically eliminated but realistically they were. So why if you’re going to be a top draft pick even play if you get hurt en route to a NY6 bowl or something worse? This sort of sets up an interesting thought experiment into “does any of this actually matter and if it doesn’t why not play as little as possible?”
Yeah, that Hiestand anecdote was just something I could see him doing but not a real story.
I can respect that
The most recent reporting I’ve seen is that Austin is unlikely to go pro but the likeliest result is he grad transfers.
why. He is WR #1
WR1 at ND means tied for 2nd in receptions with the RB and far behind the TE in importance to the offense. Transferring for him isn’t the worst idea, gives him more chances in college for maybe a more pass-happy offense. It’s certainly a better idea for him than declaring for the draft.
Yea why would he grad transfer? That would be quite surprising. He won’t get much competition to be on the field next year at ND. Plenty of snaps for everyone (even if somehow Styles/Colzie/Merriweather turned out to be amazing from the start).
exactly. He’s WR 1 at a play off contender in a offense he knows.
Also, Does anyone notice some blue collar fetish vibes w/ Freeman? I think i kinda like it
What does this mean exactly?
I’m not sure. I read about it on this site back in august re: no names on jerseys, which represented outdate blue collar ideas
Trust me. Freeman is a midwest guy w/ 6 kids who played linebacker at OSU under Tressel who he considers a strong influence. This dude absolutely BREATHES natural grass and no logos.
All of the following is utter speculation on my part, but: the two most obvious reasons would be (1) being closer to home and (2) the quarterback next year has at least uncertain passing ability and may not be optimal for the season he would like to showcase his talent for the NFL.
He could, for example, go to Miami and play with a surer-thing QB in his hometown.
that’s true but Miami sucks. He’s a smart kid i would think and smart kids don’t leave good teams for sucky teams for one year
Miami actually has a decent amount of talent – 2nd in the ACC this year and 13th overall (right behind ND who is at 12). (Which actually might make it a bit of a battle for Austin to play WR at miami – they have good talent at the WR position according to 247 recruiting rankings anyway and seem the lead for top 50 WR for 2022 class which is small but the average recruit is .92ish). And with a new coach (who has a good track record) I would imagine there is some optimism for a lot of improvement in one year.
Can King come back for another year? If not, it doesn’t seem like a surer-thing at QB.
But of course if he just wants to be closer to home that would make some sense.
but cant he just wait one year? Trading one year for a lifetime of fortune and glory. His home isn’t going anywhere
I think part of the point is that he would think he might be able to be showcased better there anyway (which would make sense of King can come back).
well i guess i’m underrating the U.
I’m not sure if that’s true I’m just saying that’s gotta be part of the thinking (or at least that he’d have an equal football opportunity at worst). It’s not like he would be going to a really bottom-feeder kind of team.
ND has had more receivers drafted than Miami over the past 5-6 years. And the most “showcased” of those was drafted in round 5 in 2020. I don’t understand why people continue to equate raw counting stats with a favorable draft review from the scouting community. It’s inaccurate.
VanDyke finished #11 in QBR as a true freshman (Coan was #34, for reference). He appears to be the real deal, and ESPN says he finished with a higher EPA on pass plays than, e.g., Matt Corral.
He’s a surer thing than Buchner for next year, particularly as a passer.
Interesting. PFF rates VanDyke 71st whereas Coan finished 26th in passing.
Van Dyke looked legit in the games I watched. But Miami QBs seem to pop out of no where and look awesome and then disappear as quickly as they burst onto the scene, so we’ll see I guess.
Yea he could be good I don’t know – esp. if he’s a young player. I’m just going by his graded games by PFF right now. Though I remember reading that one of the best indicators of good QB play is experience actually. It’s just really hard to play QB being inexperienced (sure we can point to a couple of Heisman winners with all the talent in the world around them as exceptions but they seem to be just that – exceptions). So if he’s young and has the tools, he could certainly improve quickly next year.
You’re forgetting that VanDyke will be playing for a coach who decided to run a three yards and a cloud of dust offense while Justin Herbert was the quarterback.
Merry Christmas everybody !
Hey Noise, going over my pals tonight. He and his wife are giving their two teenage girls a trip to France for Christmas. 10 nights in Cannes and 3 in Paris…Joyeux Noel mon ami.
Salut, tindma,
That is a super nice present. I’ve been to Cannes lots, for the film festival, and also for battlefield study visits (the August 1944 landings are a forgotten gem). I have also been sponsoring ND interns for the last 18 years in Paris. So feel free to tell your buddy I would be happy to be a contact for the girls!
So, I heard on IB Podcast (I know) that Heistand is almost a fine deal Tobe hired. It won’t happen until after the bowl game though. Another possibility under consideration is to have Chris Watt actually be the online coach (he is currently O line coach at Tulane). Heistand would be hired as an analyst and mentor Watt and the oline in general. I am not sure what limitations there are with analysts, but you would get HH’s experience and reputation (as well as Watt’s) plus Watt’s energy and (hopefully) recuting acumen. I think that may be best of both worlds.
That sounds like an awful idea. Watt has only one year of experience as a proper OL coach, which came at Tulane.
I have to admit I’m over bringing back former players as assistant coaches. Todd Lyght and Autry Denson were two of the more underwhelming hires of Kelly’s entire tenure. Having played football at ND is not a substitute for a CV that fully qualifies one for the job in question.
A rare post from me off-topic, and hand-wringy to boot, but is anyone else concerned about Ian Book having to start for the Saints tonight? I do not follow the NFL that much, but do like to hear about former ND players. Unlike some of you, I always truly enjoyed having Ian as our quarterback, if only for his incredible coolness under pressure. I was happy that the Saints drafted him, I figured he’d get some tutelage under their head coach, who seemed capable of developing a prospect like Ian. But now I understand he is supposed to start tonight in a game that means something to both teams. And that apparently the Saints contacted Drew Breese and Philip Rivers (??!!) to see if they’d come back — not exactly a vote of confidence for Ian?
I dunno, I have bad memories of rookie QBs in the NFL facing starts like this (certainly to include guys like Brady and Jimmie C and Deshaun). But being in France is hard to have situational awareness (SA as our military puts it). Does anyone else share this uneasiness?
No sir. full excited here. The lady of the house and I plan to sit down and watch a full NFL game for the first time in a couple years tonight.
OK, all,
I guess I will stop wringing my hands. And hope for the best. This may even be worth my waking up at 0300 Paris time to check him out.
BK, oh well… eye roll merited!
I’m excited for him, I hope he does well. Pretty sure Book was only just OK in the preseason, so I’m not totally surprised the Saints would look to a short-term patch to try sign a proven (if aged) legend instead. Desperate times calling for desperate measures and all.
I guess on the bright side, no one is expecting too much (Saints are 3.5 point underdogs at home), so really the stage is set for Book to over-perform. If he plays well or finds a way to gut out a win, he will exceed expectations. If he flounders in his first career start, that’s kinda to be expected.
I also saw that ol’ BK is going to be at the game to support Book, which of course Mr. Louisiana is going to be there. Met that with an eyeroll.