The line heading into this game did feel a little curious but it’s example 9 million of how Vegas knows best as the Irish crashed and burned their boats on another trip Clemson on Saturday afternoon. The team fought back from a 1st half deficit and then couldn’t complete a thorough comeback (or a pass) ultimately falling by 8 points to the unranked Tigers.
Here’s the recap of Notre Dame’s 3rd loss of 2023:
Stats Package
| STAT | IRISH | TIGERS |
|---|---|---|
| Score | 23 | 31 |
| Plays | 61 | 69 |
| Total Yards | 329 | 285 |
| Yards Per Play | 5.4 | 4.1 |
| Conversions | 3/14 | 5/16 |
| Completions | 13 | 13 |
| Yards/Attempt | 4.8 | 4.1 |
| Rushes | 31 | 43 |
| Rushing Success | 44.8% | 52.3% |
| 10+ Yds Rushes | 5 | 6 |
| 20+ Yds Passes | 4 | 0 |
| Defense Stuff Rate | 24.6% | 29.5% |
Offense
QB: F
RB: B
TE: D
OL: B
WR: D
There were some things in this offensive performance that were legitimately impressive, namely Audric Estime making some plays with his feet and broke off several quality runs. Even Sam Hartman rumbled a few times for big gains. The top 5 biggest gainers for these 2 players totaled 127 yards on the ground and really helped the Irish to finish with a pretty decent 5.4 yards per play average on offense.
Unfortunately, Notre Dame got pretty much nothing else on the ground from other tailbacks (Price, Payne, and Love combined for 1 of 6 successful carries) and all of the other 56 plays from scrimmage netted a humbling 3.6 yards per play.
The passing game looks completely broken. Sam Hartman–someone who seems to exist on straight vibes–looks out of it at best and completely confused at worst with the basics of completing passes. There’s been talk about a possible knee injury but I swear his shoulder might be banged up because routine throws are a major struggle right now. That doesn’t necessarily explain the poor decision-making, however, there could be a fairly large trickle down effect.
The situation at receiver is sad, and I’m sick of writing about it. Bless his heart, Chris Tyree is giving everything to this team and been a good soldier but a lost punt return fumble was brutal and targeting him 7 times for just 29 yards isn’t a successful recipe. Not that I can come up with a better plan, other than maybe getting the ball more to 137 pound former walk-on Jordan Faison who looks dangerous most of the time he touches the ball.
Rushing Success
Estime – 8 of 17
Price – 0 of 2
Payne – 0 of 1
Love – 1 of 3
Hartman – 3 of 5
Faison – 1 of 1
This would’ve been a good time for Staes or another tight end to step up as a playmaker and that didn’t happen, either.
The offensive line lost center Zeke Correll to a concussion, lost his replacement Andrew Kristofic due to injury, and then turned to the inexperienced Ashton Craig for the remainder of the game. I thought the line played admirably all things considered–they were far from the biggest problems of the day for the Irish.
The finish to the game for the offense is just so embarrassing. In total, 5 punts, 1 interception, with the final turnover on downs. They ran just 24 plays across 6 drives for a pathetic 60 yards when the game was screaming out for ANY type of a pulse from the offense.
Defense
DL: C-
LB: D
DB: B+
Upon further review, I ended up being a little kinder to this defensive performance than I felt during a frustrating game while watching it live. For as bad as Notre Dame’s finish was on offense it snuck under the radar that Clemson went with 5 straight punts and a nearly back-breaking fumble before ending the game running out of the clock for the victory.
This Irish defensive output came down to a few bad drives and an inability to slow down Clemson running back Phil Mafah.
Mafah rumbled for 186 yards and 2 touchdowns with 20 successful runs. Given the state of this Tigers’ offensive line coming into the game that doesn’t even seem real. Credit to Mafah as he looked tremendous but they were able to exploit something on Notre Dame’s defense. Given all of that running (Mafah had 36 carries!) it’s a huge indictment that main linebackers Marist Liufau (0 stuffs) and JD Bertrand (0.5 stuffs) were so invisible.
Meanwhile, in comparison Clemson linebacker Jeremiah Trotter put up an All-American performance with 11 tackles, 2 sacks, and 1 interception.
I was disappointed with the lack of a pass rush as Clemson quarterback Cade Klubnik was barely harassed on the afternoon. Although, he got rid of the ball quickly most of the time and only attempted 26 passes for 106 yards anyway. If you had shown me those numbers before the game I would’ve believed Notre Dame won going away.
Alas.
Stuffs
Mills – 3.5
JJB – 3.5
Kiser – 2.5
Burnham – 2
Rubio – 1.5
Cross – 1.5
Morrison – 1
Brown – 1
Bertrand – 0.5
I’m normally the “we blame the offense too much” when both sides aren’t playing well. As I mentioned, watching live this really looked like a flat out bad and uninspired effort from the Irish defense. Then you look back and Clemson only finished with 285 total yards at 4.1 yards per play and I believe that’s more than enough to win a matchup like this–even with the Tigers’ offensive struggles to date.
That 11-play 75-yard touchdown drive by Clemson immediately after the Xavier Watts interception and Estime touchdown really stung badly. The Irish had just cut the lead to 24-16–effectively evening out Hartman’s pick six mistake–and then pissed all over themselves to let Clemson build back up a 15-point lead. With 8 minutes remaining in the 3rd quarter, Clemson would never score again.
Final Thoughts
Eating 2 timeouts before halftime and giving up was pretty damn sad. Notre Dame also kicked a field goal on 4th & 3 from the Clemson 12-yard line and settled again on 4th & 5 from the Clemson 5-yard line. I can’t entirely blame the coaching staff when we see things like Hartman really struggling with the basics but this team really plays incredibly scared on offense and Freeman truly speaks into existence the need to play things conservatively and hope for the best.
Clemson’s punter deserves at least a partial MVP vote for this game. He pinned Notre Dame deep 5 separate times and even Klubnik’s squib punt was executed to perfection.
I laughed way too hard from a TheThrowGod TikTok back in September after their Duke loss saying that Dabo Swinney “turned Clemson into a 2A all-white kids Christian academy” and well I’m not laughing anymore.
Did you know: Sam Hartman has completed 17 or fewer passes in 7 out of 10 games this season. He’s only broken 20 completions in a game once (22) against Louisville. What a disappointment.
Hartman completed 3 short passes for 77 yards to Estime, Faison, and Flores, plus a cross-field throw that was in the air a little longer to Chris Tyree for 21 yards. For the rest of the game, Hartman was 9 of 27 for 48 yards.
Spencer Shrader has made his last 8 field goals, so we got that going for us.
Audric Estime’s first 4 carries netted 67 yards, then he finished with 20 yards on his final 13 carries. Maybe my grade for the offensive line was a bit too high?
There were 6 pass breakups for the Irish defense in this game, that’s a really solid number.
I liked the white pants with the road jerseys. Although, I think contrasting colors needs to be more of an informal rule in college football. With the bright sunny South Carolina sky it wasn’t too smart to wear the same color pants as Clemson, plus the gold helmets and orange helmets aren’t that dissimilar.
Man, 0 penalties for Clemson. Zero?
For as wild as this game got at certain points it’s weird to look back and see that neither team scored in the 4th quarter. Although, I’ll always wonder what happens if Notre Dame picks up that high snap that went past Klubnik and scores with 11 minutes remaining in the 4th quarter. It potentially would’ve been a tie game (if the Irish converted a 2-point conversion).
I’m not wasting much anger for Gerad Parker. He is almost certain to be fired. The more concerning thing is what decision Freeman makes for a new hire at offensive coordinator and with what Notre Dame has shown the world this season…what kind of talent, quarterback included, is going to be dying to come to South Bend in 2024?
Let’s not forget the terrible timeout usage in the second half! Somehow we got the ball back with 3 timeouts and 2:53 left in the second half down 8 after a punt. How does that happen??? Didn’t end up mattering in the end but certainly could have. Also huddled with a running clock on the following drive, like, what?
As you say, obviously Parker is very bad at calling plays and should/hopefully will be fired. The more concerning thing as a going-forward matter is that Freeman makes in-game decisions that are not just questionable but straightforwardly wrong.
Also: when you score a touchdown and are down 9 in the second half go for 2 pls thx
Actually it’s best to wait to the 4th quarter to go for 2 to narrow the deficit to 7.
Actually no it’s really not: https://twitter.com/ND_FB_Analytics/status/1720868877876277647
You don’t chase points with 29 or 25 minutes left in the game.
I don’t care what that twitter account posted.
But why not? Why is the reasoning in the twitter account wrong?
It is logically the wrong thing to do if you just think about it a little bit, AND it ended up being a mistake in this particular game. At least usually when people defend bad decisions they can point to the result, but here every time we got the ball back starting (at least) at the drive where we got it with 7 minutes left in the game we were at a disadvantage as compared as to a world where we had gone for 2 in the third quarter because we didn’t know how many scores we needed at that point (and thus don’t know how fast to play/optimal clock strategy etc.).
It didn’t end up hurting us a ton because the offense was inept, but that was more luck than good strategy. Getting that point to be down 8 instead of 9 didn’t help us at all, at least until we got the ball back with so little time that we had zero chance of having two drives. But that can’t possibly be a justification for a bad decision made 18 minutes earlier in the game.
It was just a mistake and one that he cannot make going forward. What “that twitter account posted” is obviously correct.
Going for 2 with 29 minutes and 25 minutes left makes great sense if you convert, but the downside is not converting puts the team down 2 stores. ND goes for 2 and falls behind 31-22 it changes the strategy for both teams and there is zero hope at the end of the game. If Clemson was up 9 late in the game, they could have just taken a knee instead of handing it to their running back where he fumbled- there was still game pressure at that point, they were trying to put it away. FWIW, I am not saying you are wrong and I respect the fact you are so committed to this philosophy…I just disagree as I have seen many pro and college games where teams are content to not risk going down 2 stores in the 3rd quarter. The sad thing is, this is a pointless debate because ND never was close after 31-23 for this to matter.
Being down 8 instead of 9 isn’t better? Of course it is. …IF they had tried and failed on a two point play in the 3rd qtr, and ultimately lost needing a FG too, I can only imagine the outrage. The way the offense was performing has to factor in the decision too.
Honestly, who gives a sh*t.
Well, we do. This is a blog about Notre Dame football so it may surprise you to learn that we give a shit about Notre Dame football.
my man the points count the same no matter what the clock says
No clue the point of this “my man the points count the same” post.
ND is down 8 with 3 minutes left is much different than being 9. Being up 9 the defense is content with giving short throws and dropping 8. Up 8, they’re not.
what?
“Don’t chase points” is an old heuristic based on no analysis
Agree, pooplord69
The fivethirtyeight “when to go for 2” chart for the NFL seems pretty indifferent at 9 points, but slightly favors going for 2
I think for transfers/recruiting it might be a good idea to fire Parker immediately. I can’t believe we don’t have some analysist that could take over playcalling (or at least play a major role in playcalling) for the last 3 games.
I understand why it didn’t happen a few weeks/games ago because of what they still had to play for. But now? I’m with you. Let Guidugli call plays or something.
Who knows. But maybe someone could talk themselves into thinking Parker could make adjustments and improve. It was a little better last week it seems (and he made adjustments after that big break during the NC st game).
But now whatever adjustments he could have or did make, it’s too little and too slow and should now be clear to even those who accepted above the argument that he’s not fit for the job (even if we grant that we are very limited at WR).
Oh, I would feel much better about Freeman on a number of levels (including, as you say, to make the program more attractive to offensive players) if we woke up tomorrow and Parker were relieved of playcalling duties – and, ideally, they said that the interim has no chance of keeping the job. I just doubt it will happen.
Yea, that’s probably even the easier way to do it. You don’t even need to fire him right now – just get a new play-caller.
Yea I think Freeman not doing it could be a big strike against Freeman as a head coach.
The QB coach Geno had a stint as an offensive coordinator, why not give him a shot?
I mean whoever they give a shot to is to improve the last few games and give recruits/transfers some hope. But the answer for next year is got to be someone not already on staff. So at this point it would seem anyone else is worth trying.
Though I’d be curious to see a list of high level analysists we have.
Does Notre Dame even care anymore?
I mean I’m fine with dropping down a level with all the NIL garbage, but refusing to engage in that while also making cheap internal hires in the football program really shows that the administration doesn’t give a shit about winning past the level that will have money pouring into the bookstore and donations all over campus. I really like Freeman, but he was the obvious (and inexpensive) internal hire after Kelly left, Rees couldn’t have had a top contract for an OC, and after he left the administration blanched on spending money for an OC with any real experience. But hey, fuck it, as long as a couple players and the admins get paid on the way to a mediocre ACC program I guess it’s all worth it
Rees had a pretty significant contract for an OC, right or wrong. Can’t argue they screwed up the OC hire this offseason, though. That needs to be remedied. Freeman’s tenure likely depends on it.
Rees was hired to stay before Freeman and was given enough to keep him from going to LSU with Kelly.
The debacle with the Utah OC biggest gaff was having the process be so public. His buyout amount was very large. Rees leaving when he did, made the process more difficult too.
This is very dramatic.
Yes, ND cares, if for no other reason than football makes a lot of money. We’re just in the “hire inexperienced coaches” part of the cycle that happens over and over and over and over and over and over.
I don’t see how the offensive line deserves a B. Estime had 4 long runs and most of them early. Hartman had 3 long runs but they had nothing to do with line play. Correll was just obliterated early on a key play and he’s so mediocre that Craig was not a downgrade from him.
Just like the Louisville game, Fisher was a turnstile. He is incredibly over rated. He has no business starting at tackle for a top 20 program. He should be moved inside to guard. Unfortunately based on returnees expected back for next season he will remain at tackle.
Biggest concern for me going forward is definitely your last sentence. Having a name like Hartman wanting to come to ND to play and try to improve his draft stock was a major win. Unfortunately, the latter did not happen for him. It’s multifactorial but man, can’t imagine this year has done much to help his draft stock.
I don’t even know what else to say. Nothing major to play for at this point other than pride.
Given the “nothing to play for” point – which I think is right – do they tell Hartman thanks for the efforts and give Angeli 3 games to show what he can do (or, if he doesn’t have much to show, make clear to everyone that we need to recruit a transfer QB again/squash any agita about that)? Honestly I’m not sure it really matters if we increase our odds of losing either of the next two games, and presumably Hartman isn’t going to play in a third-tier bowl anyway.
Obviously that seems like it’s likely not going to happen but honestly it may be something in the best interest of the program going forward.
On the other hand, if Parker is still the OC, would we really want to judge what Angeli does in the couple of games with Parker as a fair indicator of what he would/could do with an OC who is good at his job?
Better than nothing but that’s a valid point. More reason to make the inevitable change during the bye week.
Really the only reason to not demote/fire Parker today is Freeman being concerned that he will be viewed in the industry as somebody who fires mid-season. But he should also be concerned about how it will look if he *doesn’t* do something about Parker.
Agreed it would be better than nothing. But as you agree, there still would be a concern there.
Hartman is not expected to be a high round pick. Him not bailing out on a bowl game should be seen as a positive by NFL teams.
I was in this boat too, but if Angeli sucks, you need another transfer this offseason. Then you maybe hurt your chances of getting that transfer if he doesn’t like the way you handled Hartman.
Honestly, we’re in a lose-lose situation here.
Does anyone trust any decision this program makes about QBs? I don’t.
I realize that’s unhelpful.
It’s hard being in the bubble of your own team so what other programs do well/make good decisions about their QB situation?
I mean other than the obvious OSU and Lincoln Riley coached teams?
Plenty. Michigan, Washington, Oregon, UNC, Florida State, Kansas, to name a few.
If we’re talking about “being in the bubble of your own team,” the idea that this type of offense and QB performance is normal and acceptable is very much being within the ND bubble.
As always: Watch other teams. Watch an Oregon game and ask yourself if ND’s offense has even a shred of hope of approximating what they do.
I think you maybe misunderstood my question. I’m wondering about QB decisions over time. Not just teams that have a good QB right now. What I’m wondering is normal is whether teams have difficulties finding good QBs over time – that is, do most teams think they regularly have good QBs (not just one good QB who plays well for 3 years).
That’s why I listed the teams I did. One could have added Clemson to that list before DJU last year. But even they’ve hit a rough patch now with DJU/Klunick (though maybe we are finding out its more about the team around the QB than the QB himself).
When you put it like that, yikes that’s bleak.
Maybe the way out of the situation is floating the idea to Hartman as a win-win (ie, reduces risk of injury to him), and have him be publicly on board if he likes it and don’t do it if he doesn’t.
We could always hope we slaughter Wake and Stanford in the first half and can play Angeli the entire second half with the starters. But then you’re into “Gerad has finally turned it around and is ready to lead this team to glory in 2024” territory.
not if the defense and special teams score a few TDs to make that big score happen in the first half!
I’m sitting here watching two productive offenses in the Alabama-LSU game.
Maybe we should give a call to one or the other of those coordinators?
Let’s see if either of these OCs can develop a QB they don’t luck into.
The one at Bama has done a good job figuring out how to play to his QB’s strengths, and I hear that at his last stop he often made lemonade out of lemons.
My brother in Christ there was a reason our QB room was Tyler Buchner, Drew Payne, and Ron Powlus’ kid
Maybe he should have recruited something other than lemons.
Tommy Rees was the QB coach for six seasons at Notre Dame.
Obviously I’m messing around here, since on one wants Denbrock or Rees back (even if it would be better than Parker). So who is a realistic choice? I think Freeman refused to even kick the tires on Sean Lewis, so that seems a reach. Who would be a good OC candidate that would make us feel good about things?
Eric pulled some good names in an article during the bye week – https://18stripes.com/five-wide-fullbacks-if-youre-looking-for-an-oc/
I think Sean Lewis is the obvious “we feel like Freeman is self-aware and looking to improve” hire, especially in light of him not taking Lewis seriously last offseason.
The other guy who I think would be exciting is Joe Brady. Supposedly he wasn’t big on recruiting, but maybe now that he didn’t work as an NFL OC he may be more amenable to doing so. In any case there would be some very good vibes during the offseason if we were to hire Brady, and we could probably attract portal talent at least.
Sean Lewis was demoted by Sanders last week and stripped of play-calling abilities. Lewis maintains a title of co-OC with duties of relaying Pat Shurmur’s plays to the QB. Lewis was 24-31 in five years at Kent State with a MAC conference record of 19-17.
Pat Shurmur was OC at Denver for the last two years who had terrible offenses and the NY Giants HC for two years prior to that. Sanders seems to be sticking with Shurmur over Lewis despite Shurmur’s play-calling probably costing Colorado a touchdown at the end of the first half in a game ending 26-19.
Deion stripping Sean Lewis of play calling looks much much more like Deion having sour grapes about his poor OL/program building than any flaw on Lewis’ part.
Yes, and it would be pretty swell if we made the most of this situation IMO.
oh I’d be all for it but from what I’d heard, Lewis seemed to have a HC job lined up. But that’s all unsubstantiated rumor
I wouldn’t read too much into this. Prime says he did not like Lewis’s recent play-calling. As with USC which is in their second year, building a cohesive OLine takes time rather than transfers in. Two starting OL transfers in did follow Lewis from Kent State. Two more are holdovers, originally signing with CU. All beat out four transfers from CCs. Very makeshift.
I mean if they refused to outbid Utah for someone I don’t know who’d they’d actually get.
New AD, let me dream.
Best we can do is Chuck Martin
This is a raw deal.
I don’t think they refused to outbid. It was a little more complicated than that. It was apparently being surprised at the buyout (apparently they had the buyout number from the old contract not the new one) and in the meantime the OC there kind of realized he didn’t want to come (I think some of it was the hesitation then to pay the new higher buyout but apparently one, albeit with some hesitation, were willing to pay).
So I don’t think the Parker hire was really about pinching pennies.
The Parker hire seemed more about Swarbrick’s arrogance. He was really great in previous rounds of conference realignment, but he’s ending his ND tenure with a massive faceplant
With respect, from everything I have heard, the Utah guy not coming was (a) about the circumstances that Irishchamp23 correctly alludes to, and (b) also to family issues and the very strong culture that has been created around the Utah team. There is nobody around more proud of our ND culture, but we can certainly understand that pride elsewhere.
I think the criticism then might go more to MF, who acted scared in hiring his tight end coach so fast. But that goes to MF being a first time head coach, IMO, an opinion I have offered too often.
The question I have is can he learn OJT in time for his decisive and determining third year? The signs are mixed. Note his taking the points on the several 4th downs is a 180 from his decisions earlier in the year (where he got burned and criticized).
As far as timing, Ryan Grubb signed an extension with Washington on December 27 but subsequently turned down Alabama at the end of January. Rees was hired less than a week later when we started the OC search. In addition to Grubb, Colin Klein at KSU and Ludwig decided on the advantage of staying home with HCs they have worked with, programs they know, and possibly family considerations with moves. Brian Lindgren at OSU and Andy Kotelnicki at Kansas are probably going to be hard to pry away for the same reasons. The timing this year may be better though so may the OC salary demands and buyouts.
Was he great in previous rounds of realignment though? The ACC deal has turned out to be a mixed bag at best (and that’s probably being generous).
The case for Swarbrick as a not-bad AD w/r/t football boils down to two things:
(1) we’re still independent(ish), and
(2) keeping Kelly in 2016. Also maybe a third and determining factor is how Freeman turns out.
But the “(ish)” is doing some work there and I’m not sure if where we are is worth it.
Yes, keeping ND out of the B1G when we were coming off the worst 5-year stretch in modern program history was an achievement, no matter how shitty the ACC deal is now.
I don’t love Swarbrick and I think he’s entirely too much of an inside baseball, our guys, my buddies and friends type, but most other ADs would have made ND into Nebraska as of 2009.
I don’t think ND would become Nebraska if they joined the B1G – hell, we might have become the dominant program of the B1G West. ND has unique aspects that Nebraska very much does not have – namely, a very good academic reputation, multiple periods of historic football success (instead of one long period that was built on having basically one of the only two strength programs in the country – and steroids), and a wealthy alumni base. And *much* better geography.
I think we’d basically be what we are if we were in the B1G – a debate for who is the #2 program in the conference between us and Michigan, but all in a tier behind Ohio State over the long term. In other words, I don’t think joining the B1G helps the program, but it probably doesn’t hurt.
I think the benefit of independence is we *could* be using it to do something special/being more unique and cool and use it to our advantage to potentially raise our ceiling beyond where we could possibly be in the B1G, but instead we’re using it primarily to play Navy and Stanford.
My dude, the dominant program of the B1G West is the hottest person at the Star Trek convention.
I don’t like the ACC any more than you do, but let’s not kid ourselves about what B1Gdom would be.
Next year the BIG conference decision-makers have eliminated divisions. Media companies want those attractive matchups for the times slots.
Yes, I was talking retrospectively – i.e., in the B1G we could have been a better Wisconsin over the course of the last decade, which is essentially what ND football has been in terms of results.
But going forward I think we’d probably be the #2A/2B program, maybe a clear 3 after Michigan depending on how this spying scandal plays out.
They were going to pay the Utah OC more $$ but, his buyout was enormous. $2 mil. plus, I’ve seen reported. That’s a lot of coin for an assistant coach.
Guess how much we were paying 30 year old Tommy.
I was talking the buyout not salary. My guess is the salary would have been even and then add $2+Mil. That’s a big number.
If we really want to feel crappy about how things have gone, I would also note that Utah’s offense has been pretty poor this year overall. Yes, they’ve had injuries, but in a conference that doesn’t play defense, they’ve had 5 games where they’ve scored less than 25 points. If that’s the guy who was Freeman’s #1 choice, I’m a little concerned that Swarbrick isn’t the only one who doesn’t know how to pick an offensive coordinator.
Ludwig’s total offense this year is ranked 93rd nationally (352 yd/gm) and tied for 79th in scoring offense (25 ppg), which includes a game against FCS Weber State.
Maybe either of them should have done anything remotely impressive for the very long time they were both employed by ND.
What is this bizarre pining for Tommy Rees?
Crazy people behavior.
So when the TE coach becomes the OC, and the best offensive player is a TE, and you lose him, suddenly offense becomes more anemic.
And it turns out we do have a decided QB advantage, at least against good defenses. I think Hartman would make a great point guard/distributor, but with our receivers…
Speaking of our receivers, is Stuckey not a very good developer?
Yeah I’m done with the “but Del Alexander” excuses. You’ve had 1 2/3 years of your own coaching and recruiting. You get paid lots of money to figure it out. Figure it out.
And there are how many WRs who are upperclassmen?
Yea it’s still on Del mostly with the upperclasses just decimated . I mean the transfer miss was huge but it’s hard to fault them too much because they tried to take a guy and it’s hard to know how many guys they really had the option on.
So I guess we have to wait 2 more years before we have WRs that can compete at the P5 level? Not sure Marcus has that much time.
I think he’d have to do something borderline illegal to get fired next season. But, if we’re at this 8-4/9-3y level and haven’t made the playoff by the end of the 2025 season, he absolutely has to get fired at that point.
So, figuring out the OC thing is probably going to make or break his tenure. Can’t screw the next hire up.
2 more years would be the 2025 season. And I’m not suggesting he’d be fired next year, but that we can’t wait around for WRs to be good when they’re seniors and not before. If anything, the lack of anything on the roster should mean that the young guys are playing and learning early. But instead we have Merriwether.
If Stucky is a decent coach, then one would expect more from Greathouse/Flores/Faison/Merriweather next year with another year in the program (for most of them a 2nd year).
Also hopefully they don’t completely mismanage an injury to our best WR next year as well and Thomas can actually play.
Next year we’ll default to the “oh, it’s a new inexperienced QB, he can’t make the throws to the WRs” and we’ll start the cycle all over.
Sorry for disappointing you Mrs. Freeman and/or Parker but the above is a pretty milquetoast opinion imo
Perhaps that’d be true if there was no such thing as the transfer portal. That’s what would happen if there are two or three classes in a row with only like 1 or 2 serviceable WRs total.
Obviously it’s easier for Wrs the longer they are in the program to excel so one would naturally expect all the freshmen snaps to pay off next year as well.
Honestly decimated would be an improvement, versus how many players left/switched to defense/got hurt this year.
funny how other “elite” programs can figure out how to get freshmen and sophomores to play competent D1 football but for ND it’s never (ok, rarely) possible. I’m not the one to answer these questions. The coach who gets paid way more than I do should have an answer after 22 games. Are you going to tell me that Tobias Merriwether “just needs some more time”? I’m sympathetic to the injuries this season, but it shouldn’t be so bad that our transfer QB has no one to throw to when the TE gets hurt.
I think it’s pretty clear at this point that Tobias Merriweather is not good at playing wide receiver. Maybe he’ll have a Miles Boykin-like emergence as a senior, but I wouldn’t count on it.
Which is why he shouldn’t see the field and should transfer to a FCS school or I don’t know, Eastern Michigan. Whatever. I don’t care what his physical tools are, he’s a bad pass catcher. Great, he’s a good blocker–he’s our 6th TE, in that case.
I’m just really tired of “but we have no WRs” as the excuse for why our offense can’t function. No, Stuckey was not left with anything near a decent room. Last year, with Drew Pyne, you knew we weren’t going to throw deep anyway. But all we can point to this season is that Tyree has made a decent transition to a #3 WR.
But that’s the truth. Opposing defenses can play us without regard for WRs because our WRs present no threat whatsoever.
This is almost entirely a recruiting and development problem.
I remember when certain beat writers looked at the Jordan Johnson situation and threw that back in peoples faces.
I mean some freshmen did play this year and play pretty well. Obviously not all situations are equal and guys come from different backgrounds and different levels of coaching from high school. And so while some freshmen can be coached up to play some, for good reason even, need another year or two (or 3!) of seasoning before being ready. I think one would just have to look at it on a case by case basis.
Claypool and Boykin are good examples of having breakout seasons after 3 (wasn’t it 3?) years in the program without having done much before that.
It’s fine to have a WR have a breakout season in their senior year. It’s not a system one can rely on. We don’t have a functional passing game, and we have the QB who holds a gajillion ACC records. Sam ain’t perfect, don’t want to let him off the hook (especially after today) but I for one am really tired of hearing how Wake Forest had better receivers every broadcast or podcast or whatever.
Agreed. I’m tired of it too.
I mean Wake didn’t have to pull kids from the scout team to start games at wide out.
We’re all very tired of it but it’s true.
Well the fact that the freshman HAVE to be good starters this year is insane. There’s been a lot of charts here and elsewhere of how freshmen wide outs can be complimentary pieces but don’t normally do a ton at ND. And it’s not like we got incredible 5 star guys. The fact that we moved a freshman lax player from the scout team to getting meaningful snaps kind of says it all.
Agreed. It’s a real problem. That’s why a lot of this is still on Del and the other part of this is on whatever/whoever is to blame for not getting a contributor in the portal.
Great points, thanks.
So yes, losing Mitch turns out to have been as bad as we heared, because IMO he was Hartman’s security blanket. I think Sam has been made “gunshy” (to quote MF in another context) by a very corrosive combination:
(1) mediocre to poor protection from both O-line and RBs vs good teams
(2) really awful receivers as Eric notes so forcefully — I mean, they just don’t get open. Mitch had become the only exception.
(3) and as Eric also note, some undisclosed injury(ies).
On the play where Hartman rolled out in the first half, Flores was his primary receiver, he was open but Hartman went to Greathouse instead. His throw was wild and into row 8 behind the end zone. For whatever reason Hartman has struggled after a good start to the season. Maybe he’s hurt, IDK, but he’s been flummoxed for at least 6 games to be productive. He’s made some really bad decisions.
It’s almost like we broke him – along the lines of what the Browns have done for many QBs.
Poor play but, two brutal turnovers.
Really really a good analysis, Eric — after such a painful experience, I appreciate it. Also appreciate all the comments, and KG, nice to read you again.
So reference some of the exchanges, to requote Ara Parsegian when he was being hired by Father Joyce, “If I can’t get it done in three years, it won’t get done.” And again, the third year has been determinant for every single HC we’ve had for over a century. So I’d say we’ll know about MF by this time next year. And the signals are mixed and trending down. QB (Angeli? Portal?) Receivers (frosh get better, portal)? Rebuild O-line? Get enough defenders back, keep/hire a good DC? A new OC? My head tells me there’s too much to fix.
But my heart hopes desperately that MF can manage.
Time for CMF to get a set of balls and tell our very slightly better than average QB to take a seat. Let our future QB, Angelli, get some meaningful game reps and experience even though it is with an incompetent OC, its still experience that will go a long way toward next season.
If you’re taking bye week idea submissions/my 18S subscription is paid-in-full: would be interesting to get a writers’ room post to see where folks think the program will be in two years. I’m curious how optimistic and/or morbid folks are on the ND football front right now.
I would sign up for that and here’s a preview:
We’ll have a good defense and a poopworld offense and we’ll go 9-3/8-4.
That sucked, no doubt. Genuine question would you rather be clemson or nd right now but picture?
Dabo is probably going to do enough this year to double down on his current philosophy (and they feel like years away from that 15-19 run). For Nd, the big question is this plus louisville enough to give freeman perespective?
Honestly it would’ve been worse to have same offensive performance but squeak out a win because klubnik was even a little worse so nothing feels as broke
I would never rather be Clemson.
-White pants with brown stains.
-Clemson followed the script they needed for a win – far better field position (they stuck, what, 127 punts on our 6-yard line?), win the TO battle, and somehow, miraculously, get called for not even one single penalty.
-Maybe this is just ND’s personality under Freeman. Look awesome for a few weeks, then melt down, then get it together again for a bit, then fall apart again. I can think of some past ND teams that followed that pattern and it’s not encouraging.
-I think we all kind of suspected this, but this team in an NY6 bowl probably would have been ugly unless we drew a very favorable matchup, which, lol. This is a Pop-tarts Bowl team. Please, please, please do not lose to Stanford. Please.
Yeah, I think this is who we are.
The STL Cardinals color guy Mike Shannon (RIP) once said in a moment of sobriety that “You’re never quite as good as you think you are when you’re winning, or quite as bad as you think when you’re losing.”
I still think we’re a 9-3 top 15-20 team. Able to go head to head with top 5 teams on a good day, able to lose to almost anybody on the wrong day.
God bless Mike Shannon and his ice cold, frosty Budweiser.
What’s weird is that last season we were the opposite — headcases at home, but road warriors.
Sadly, we had our favorable matchup in a NY6 a couple of years ago, and still couldn’t get the monkey of our backs. I agree that this team would not have performed favorably against an, e.g., rounding into form Alabama team.
I’ve definitely got a pitchfork.
Going into yesterday I still had the door ever so slightly cracked for Parker to convince me. Naive on my part. He doesn’t have it. They should have left him on the tarmac.
I’m hoping for a total offensive staff turnover this offseason.
The line is a mess. I don’t know how much the scheme and play calling affects the line’s performance and vice versa but I’m unimpressed with Rudolph. He’s been inconsistent at best.
I’m done giving Stuckey the benefit of the doubt. His most impressive achievement is…Tyree’s last game? It was nice to think for a week that maybe it was a breakout.
McCullough deserves another shot at the NFL and I think he’ll get it. But if he wants to stay I’d love that.
Guidouli has been a huge disappointment. Again, I don’t know exactly how much scheme and play calling and a bad receiver corps is to blame, but Hartman doesn’t look like a guy who desperately needs help. He looks like part of the problem. The throws and decisions he’s making look bad.
Hire a new OC who knows how to OC and have him bring his own staff.
Am I crazy or does it seem like Hartman throws off of his back foot quite a bit?
I don’t think you’re crazy
I think his footwork gets him in trouble. He doesn’t like using play action. (with a run oriented team that’s not good) His decision making is questionable. He misses on some easy throws. “Best since Quinn”….er, No.
He doesn’t like using play action because Parker doesn’t call it.
You might have that backwards according to reports I’ve heard.
Isn’t it impressive for Stuckey to have gotten a few freshmen WRs playing? We usually complain how more freshmen generally don’t play (the highly ranked ones anyway). And isn’t it impressive that he recruited such a class to begin with?
Add in Cam Williams for next year who seems to be a Michael Floyd-lite type of player. I would want our next WRs coach to be doing those exact things (even if I wanted him to be doing other things better too).
Man I don’t know if it’s that impressive that he’s gotten freshmen playing; maybe? On the flip side, there literally isn’t another receiver on the roster who could play, right? I guess Colzie is theoretically around somewhere? Matt Salerno’s allegedly still alive. But really, I don’t know if it’s impressive Stuckey has them on the field more than it’s just necessity at this point due to a lack of healthy bodies.
I’m just going to go back and watch Lorenzo Styles Fiesta Bowl highlights now and cry.
Well James isn’t playing as a freshmen. I mean it’s true there are available snaps but they are running the full offense aren’t they? And if they came more ready-made then I think the recruiting bit is at least impressive, no?
I don’t know that there’s anything impressive about the WR room. The people I listen to say we have a handful of slot guys (4,17,19, 80) playing all the WR positions. 5+0 have been disappointments.
Are they running the full offense? If they are, the full offense sucks.
Of course it sucks.
So the next transfer qb we get probably shouldn’t be the oldest player in the country who set a bunch of records by 1. Being in school so long 2. Working against weaker competition.
And that leaves….?
It was more a comment on how so much of the fan base was thinking Hartman was the best thing since sliced bread, and has turned out not to be. But also how ND makes it so difficult to get and underclassmen to transfer in. It was wrote in frustration as was the best way I could express it. Though a bit of sarcasm.
I understand and that’s totally fair.
I’m just not convinced the problem is/was Hartman. I know he is not playing well now but I think he was a very good QB and easily the best on the market. I think we’ve kind of broken him or we’ve somehow been a bad ecosystem for a QB (with Parker and/or WR problem).
And I don’t know that we’ll ever get a better transfer QB. It’s not like QBs from big time programs who have started a bunch will be coming.
Please make this happen, but I won’t believe it until I see it.
Eric, insightful write-up as usual. Thank you. You ‘da man!
Hartman was under pressure many of the plays. He didn’t seem to have “options.” Clemson rushed 5 many times and 6 at least once that I saw. My questions:
1.) Did Clemson blitz primarily on certain ND formations? If so, why were we unable to make adjustments?
2.) Would an appropriate response to Clemson’s blitzes have been to move the pocket? Did not see ND move the pocket once. Is Hartman not able to pass on the run?
3.) Would another appropriate response be to employ crossing routes to the spaces vacated by Clemson linebackers? Or, quickly dump dump passes to the flat?
One note on the pressure Sam faced: that clemson all-american LB, n 54, just consistently beat our RB efforts to block him.
Oh hey looks like USC just fired their DC. Then again, they have an HC who can call plays.
I’m with the PP who suggested a soft firing/demotion of Parker to co-OC/TE coach and promote anybody else to co-OC with play calling duties.
O wow, it almost seemed like the DC couldn’t do anything to get fired there!